possible problem for psi users and Muzi Quest

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Kiya138
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possible problem for psi users and Muzi Quest

Post by Kiya138 »

Is there any way to either re-locate peewee for muzi quest, either a portal there, or a new location. The Muzi quest was designed for lower level psi/thief crits and the reward is in a lvl 17/18 area. Small psi users don\'t have the hp/ep to survive the run thru km2 with no ep regen. Since uzi has been lvl restricted, it stalls out psi user progression, much past skill 6 or 7. Many new players can\'t get a Muzi solo or even the items for the quest, and know very few other players who know how to get the items needed for quest and where to go to trade for the Muzi.

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Last edited by Kiya138 on Sat May 21, 2005 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

max|pic
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Post by max|pic »

it was designed for groups to go after peewee, but now that the game has changed it is more trouble than it is worth
you need a mt or someone with a twig to dex you if you are a low lvl.
So it should be moved, maybe somewhere like n-5 or something
It was easier for people to just get uzi's before now, so it was never a big issue.
Since the chage most older players get +3 ep regen muzis or already have uzis from before the requirement.

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Post by Magnum »

Right now with a decent party papa lich isnt that hard, actually its easy with 3 sticks and a healer. But the only problems with it is lvl req if you are small.
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Kiya138
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Post by Kiya138 »

Small psi users don't have the hp/ep to survive the run thru km2 with no ep regen. Since uzi has been lvl restricted, also small psi users need Muzi before they have 150 hp for -5 runs


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Post by max|pic »

ive ran to cob on a lvl 1 so.... its not like a lvl 10 cant make it to n-5 if u are talking about my post
you can do several things if brad puts it in n-5, lot less of a run then km-2
1, get protstun twig and get running
2, get an invis
3, deal without it
4, get someone to dex u like has to be done now
5, wait till ur big enough for uzi

in ien i was personally lvl 12-14 before i got a muzi and lvl 16 or 17 before uzi, so its not like its impossible

the straight facts are newbies today are spoiled
Last edited by max|pic on Sat May 21, 2005 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kiya138
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Post by Kiya138 »

MAX/PIC was not responding to yours. the -5 idea seems reasonable. Possibly in the hidden sellers area. My main concern is that we could start losing newer players because the gear they need to build a really nice crit, with appropriate skill, is in an area that they are not ready for, or that they don't know anyone who can help them get the items or get to the trader either for the key or the Muzi itself.
I built my first psi users, healer and f/m with only muzi ring til 15/10 on f/m and 14/9 on healer, before f/m got muzi. took her on the lich hunt for my first uzi. so i know its doable, just a bit more difficult than some have the time or ambition for.

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Post by ZhouYu »

Best way to start a character: go down to N-3.5 and search for plate.

Put on said plate.

Go to VT and get wooden shield. Put said shield in left hand.

Enjoy!

I think that the req'd level thing is a good idea. Only one I have a problem with is the untied UZI. I never bothered with MUZI because of where it is when I could get UZI or untied UZI a lot easier. Even that's not much of a problem, except when ments start needing to pop piles for cash.
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Post by Doro »

Originally posted by ZhouYu


I never bothered with MUZI because of where it is when I could get UZI or untied UZI a lot easier.
(not by dint of deed, but by persuading someone to give you one).

And that is exactly what the level restriction is for, the game designer(s) have decided that a UZI is not for smaller folks - it was an oversight not to restrict it I am sure.

However, having said that, smaller folks would need the help to get MUZI so the help amounts to the same whether it's for UZI or MUZI.
ho

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PieterPost
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Post by PieterPost »

I have always reckoned Peewee was located in too hard an area. Just the run to the KM dungeon can be tough, having to get past vt rd, charging saberteeth (?) and iceworms throwing a pretty big icebreath. Add harpies with stun to the equation and you're up for a tough ride. That's not even to mention the perfect black pearl from m-2 you need to get the key for Peewee, and the archers you need to kill for their bows. Frankly I think the n-3.5 ghost pearl is the "best" item for the quest as it is semi-hard but far from impossible to get at lower levels.

I'd like to see the Muzi quest revamped into something one or two level 12s should be able to pull off. This obviously means moving Peewee, possibly to some remote part of n-3.5 or the "secret" area on n-5 (no psi there so small crits can make the run..). This would also stop players from having to go to m-2 to get a key. I'd like to see the archer bows replaced by something a tad easier to get for small players, say the cloak from the n-3.5 mummylord (not the n-3 mummyking) or the proning champion xbow. Doubt Brad will bother "fixing" a quest that's been here forever in a hurry, but it's might be good to put it on yer to-do list.

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Post by Ztinktoof »

It is a challenge (and fun) for a small player to discover and complete the pre-requisites for visiting Peewee.

To then have to make the run to Peewee afterwards is just piss-poor game design. People, including me, have been saying this for YEARS. It is not like the reward is "all-that".

Can it be done? Sure. Is it fun. No way. Of course, you will always find a forum troll who LOVES running way under-leveled toons through certain death-traps or begging for a silly DEX. To each his own, I guess.

One final note. The trade-in is horribly bugged. Been that way for YEARS. Anyone who has actually completed it knows what I am talking about.

Move Peewee to N-5. Make him accept the trade items correctly.
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Doro
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Post by Doro »

Or even N-4, if starter psi types need it then N-4 is enough of a challenge at lvl 1-10.

The step change from N-3 to N-4 is emormous.
ho

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Post by Kanak »

Originally posted by Doro
Or even N-4, if starter psi types need it then N-4 is enough of a challenge at lvl 1-10.
The step change from N-3 to N-4 is emormous.
I'll take exception to the N4/N5 idea.
The Peewee quest is perhaps the best low level original quest.
It sends players to places that they probably have not been before and may exposes them to elevated (but in scope) danger.

Players well be in N4 and N5 soon enough, as normal progression. There is a huge area that is sparsly populated and which they will soon outgrow. Wouldn't it be nice if just once a player got to navigate the 3.5 maze to the north west corner. The average player may visit the other corners on the RB quest but there is little exploration of the far north. Brad could even through in a few N4/5 crits gaurding peewee.

However anywhere beats KM2. Promoting exploration sets a good example and is fun. Promoting DX/MT sets an bad example and depreciates the base game.;)

MHO

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ZhouYu
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Post by ZhouYu »

It was never doing the quest itself that was the problem, it was only getting to Peewee. Going down into KM isn't something you should be asking level 1-17 ments to do. I nearly died there multiple times on my pally. Papa or even Chipuda is easier for ments to do. At least that's my opinion. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong /shrug.

Anywho. I think Peewee should be moved, and perfect black pearls dropped in M-1 or something. Otherwise, the quest would be just fine for ments by level 10. Maybe 11 or 12 if they want to be safe.
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Post by Ambrose »

I used to keep a trash crit healer with cc & succor disc and twig to peewee .... was very exciting the time I twigged in to find the room swarming with harpies and skel's LOL ...

my first ment got a dex to peewee ... I was dropped on peewee's hex and peewee stripped me ... and my dex'er didn't have a twig out ... we had to be rescued ... I have mercifully forgotten their name ... but I'm sure the person who rescued us can remember :P

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Post by Kiya138 »

The whole point of completing a Quest, whether Muzi or any other, is the players ability to locate npc's either solo or with a couple of friends. Dexxing means that the location is inappropriate for the size player who should be completing the quest. As was mentioned, there are a number of unused area's within the 3.5 level, that could be used as a replacement site for Peewee. The location and difficulty of the quest items is good, with help of a couple of friends most can aquire them with little difficulty. There is the random keyed (how many know its location) portal, in RB town, and even a random regen location for Peewee at any one of these would be better than KM -2. This would also eliminate the problem of the perfect black pearl, and M-2 Hugiber location. Or move Hugibear to a forgotten training area in the same town as he is currently located with a different gem or item for trade.


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Post by flisk »

Just for kicks I took a level 3 MERCHANT to peewee. I died twice but the 3rd and 4th try I made it.

Peewee is in a good location and won't be moved, or made easier to go to.

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Post by Astra »

now imagine instead of the tons of exp of the game you have flisk, instead someone with a few weeks tries it, i think it might be a bit harder for them.
How'd your level 3 merchant get on with getting the bows, pearls and key ?

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Post by Ztinktoof »

>> Just for kicks I took a level 3 MERCHANT to peewee. I died twice but the 3rd and 4th try I made it.

This is as clueless a post I've seen made in ages. Is this a fantasy game or a contest to see who knows the most tricks for running merchants to tough areas? And you only died twice, eh? Big whoop.

And I am sure that merchant got the trade item and the key, the magical pearls, and the silver threads with nary a death. Or didn't you even bother trying to open the door with harpies wandering about?

And made the run using the Nork portals and survived the Frore yetis, sabers and random ice storms with hardly a scratch.

And explored KM1 to discover the portal to KM2 AND the item needed to activate it while easily surviving their attacks. All the while dispatching the blinking wraiths and stunning harpies to get the item.

Cut me a break.
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Post by Darge »

and why oh why should the difficulty of this be watered down? It reminds me of ep maxxing. The first people to make ments didnt have mts to funhouse seller and they prolly managed just fine. You dont NEED muzis, you just WANT them at a small level so your hunting is even easier
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Post by PieterPost »

Hunting really is pretty hard on small psi users.. sticks can swing every round, whereas especially healers have a hard time keeping assault coming. By the time players are of appropriate size to be able to do the entire muzi quest, they meet the level req for uzi's. And I don't mean just the "assigned" level req, but also the level req players put on it. Muzi is more or less put out of play, not much unlike cobrahn was for a while ():-)

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Edit: Changed "hand" into "round", lol
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Kiya138
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Post by Kiya138 »

}Just for kicks I took a level 3 MERCHANT to peewee. I died twice but the 3rd and 4th try I made it{

I will also take exception to your "test" (If it really deserves that name). More suitable, I believe is my daughters experience. yes it was difficult, getting the items, but thats as it should be for a 10/8 barb with 228 hp. Her attempt, supervised by me, took her 19 con from roller, to 15, 19 str from roller to 18, 50k of minor cons, untold coin, from me, for MR, to protect gear, and never got to km2. I made her stop when she lost 2 hp. She went with ps, pa, psi mirror from scroll, ab's and es.

I think this is a more accurate representation of how the quest currently works for new players.

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Post by Ambrose »

Thanks Kiya,
And great job teaching your daughter.

I don't think we need to MOVE PeeWee ... a quest that tp's questor to him would be fine ... we don't need to add a portal or anything ... maybe add a rare gem combination to the Rackleberry fellow.

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Post by Kiya138 »

That works too, All thats been asked is less dangerous way to get to peewee. nothing that needs huge programming skills or a huge amt of time. Something simple for brad or whoever does it , but that adds to the quest and the feeling of pride that they did it themselves. We have a tendency to pass out too much gear that new players either don't need yet, or that they just think they want to look coll and twinked to there newb buds. Most of us have done a new psi crit with little start up gear, at least once, and ep regen, especially for healers is a must.


as for her, she's just as stubborn as I am, And has temper to match her hair<G> She remains determined to get things herself, or with the minimum help from me and my friends.

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Post by Kiya138 »

Oops, almost a double. and can't delete my own goof

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Re: possible problem for psi users and Muzi Quest

Post by nunnbt473 »

Flisk, I want to know what you've been inhaling buddy. My level 10 barb wearing cob leather, 2 fungus robes + random low level gear and prepared to enter KM2 from KM1 with maeling PS only survived 1 out of 10 trips. If the door wasn't already open I never would have made it. In fact, just ENTERING KM2 litteraly killed me instantly 50% of the time. I am not sure why because nothing was attacking me and it was not a fall (I know, I tried wearing FF boots). And seeing as how door pearls no longer work. What are the odds that any crit before they reach level 14 is going to stumble upon all the pieces of this quest. Even if they read it off a website, I dare say this is 'more than difficult' even as a level 13 unless youve reached at least the unpaid max - by which point you would merely level up and get a uzi anyway.

As a vet (or rather a really really old noob) who knows many of the ins and outs of nork, I should be able to handle getting a muzi without the help of some 18/15+ character. The difficulty of the quest is obsleting the item as it is easier to build an 18/15 barbarian, get a party and beat the _insert favorite word here_ out of papa lich. In fact I wonder if its not easier to just build a stick up to solo size before making a healer or ment at all. They hit like a wet noodle, get no EP regen at low levels and dont have enough HP to wthstand a decent onslaught without an array of spells (which they have been blessed with) and decent gear. Peewee needs an outright rewrite, plain and simple.

I say put the pearl on the 3.5 ogre chief in the NW corner, have the trader randomly spawn at one of the gem teleport locations for the RB portal and let the griffy hide trade for the bow(s) to get the amulet. This will give the griffon more purpose, bring the muzi back into play and again give players a reason to do the rb sash quest instead of just waiting for someone to knock off a named ninja or get an attack sash. Not to mention people might kill that ogre chief for the first time in 10 years.
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