Creature's vision/LOS/Target doesnt update when stunned?

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nunnbt473
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Creature's vision/LOS/Target doesnt update when stunned?

Post by nunnbt473 »

I noticed this on my thief (again in baskie today). Often times if I flatted the baskie while throwing from 2+ hex away (where I can comfortably hide), sometimes it would not allow me to backstab him because I 'Did not have the element of surprise'. Other times I could be on his hex and, if I was quick enough, Backstab, hide, Backstab while on the same hex. He has always been able to see me on the same hex reguardless of being hidden.
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Migam
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Re: Creature's vision/LOS/Target doesnt update when stunned?

Post by Migam »

It's looking at you at the time it was stunned and still sees you, like it's frozen that way. That's the only answer I could come up with after years of this happening. I just wait or switch to charge til they're done. At least they stop "seeing" you if you're hidden when they come out of stun.

Maybe they could clear this upon stun someday.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
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JadeAmber
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Re: Creature's vision/LOS/Target doesnt update when stunned?

Post by JadeAmber »

Migam wrote:It's looking at you at the time it was stunned and still sees you, like it's frozen that way. That's the only answer I could come up with after years of this happening. I just wait or switch to charge til they're done. At least they stop "seeing" you if you're hidden when they come out of stun.

Maybe they could clear this upon stun someday.
I'm not certain that is what he is saying. I think he means that he IS hidden (since he can always hide from 2 away) and yet gets message after stun.

perhaps as a corollary to this observation: I have clicked on a crit from plenty of distance when it first appears on screen and I get 'no element' of surprise' message. As if that were the default and the 'hide check' has not been made.

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Migam
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Re: Creature's vision/LOS/Target doesnt update when stunned?

Post by Migam »

I know he's hidden. I have backstabbed a target, it gets stunned, I hide again and it's like it's frozen staring at me. I can't backstab it til the stun ends no matter what I try. That's an old problem.

When he threw from 2 away, he might be blinking to baskie so that the cstun hit during that part of blink he was seen and that old bug kicked in.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
---Pathfinder

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nunnbt473
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Re: Creature's vision/LOS/Target doesnt update when stunned?

Post by nunnbt473 »

I havn't noticed a failed hide check when first entering an area. I feel I would have noticed this VERY quickly the way I like to play in lairs.

Migam is correct in his understanding of my statement. When a lair creature (or any) gets stunned. Regardless of whether you currently should be visible or not, he has the visibility of the round he was initially stunned. Normally this wouldn't matter since things like targeting, retargeting, actions are all done the same round and never have an effect if you are stunned. Thieves just happen to be an exception to this since they cannot backstab while there is a target actively on them. Losing visibility automatically removes the NPCs target.

When a creature is stunned it should automatically lose target. When a player is stunned he should automatically break hide IMHO. And if a player "dances" (via dancers of course) away from a wall, there is no doubt at all that his hide should break. This keeps in line with the previous theory that visibility (and therefore target) nor hide are affected/updated during rounds when stunned. In essence stun does not just 'lock' movement, actions and instant actions (like drag/drop), but rather the character themselves to a degree. I say to a degree because you can still damage or spell them.

I was 100% hidden at two hex. I blink at 1 hex away. However, in continuing with your theory: He could have speed moved within one hex then to the second hex and briefly seen me during which time my refresh never showed him next to me. This seems possible as I have seen a creature start 2+ hex away, move to 1 hex away. Such as a dragon. I then see a message saying Ive been proned at the same time as viewing them 1 hex away and .25 rounds later he is on my hex.
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