Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

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Skip
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Skip »

I do not play a Healer; but I think a mid 30's healer that can survive an area - and is the only healer in the party - deserves a full share of anything gained. (ie 4 of us kam-mies last week working our way down from mormar 2 to 11 - carefully, but yet successfully... a lev 56 barb, lev 56 MA, 34 Healer, 45 Barb) The healer was plenty busy and we could not have done what we did without him.

I've read the original post and all replies -- seems people are already lining up for method A, B, or something else -- possibly according to their own gameplay style.

For a long time I've thought mid to upper range thiefs, ments, FM's, and definately Healers are unable to do the same advancement (since everything is kill rate based) as the traditional hitters - barb, ma, pally. I wonder if the drak gods have a sense of the character population by class -- 18 to 35, 36 to 50, 50 to 70, and 70 to 78.

I raise this point only as it goes to the CORE issue of "party play", and is it really a party play game when the deck is stacked against half the classes - because they cant contribute to the kill rate as well as the "hitters" ?

The only fight where it made a huge difference to our eventual success by having a balanced party of all classes was AcridonAlcor, where we found a vital & necessary job for all classes. The only other fight(s) that come close were over 13 years ago -when our hunt group was trying King's Quest stuff with everyone under lev 20, skill 18.

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Martialarts
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Martialarts »

I agree with you skip, I as of yet have not seen anything remotly close to any discussion to the class base player everyone is talking about. The rate of kills and have not taken into the core concept of Draks abilty hitting vs % of kills base. I know a Barb can do major damage with little are no damage to its self as a martialartist I know I need that healer A pally's adds can help him but the healer is also needed here.

A ment and a healer are a great pair toss in a pally and ma and they can do a huge amount of damage add a barb and your odds go way up.. A Fighter ment is pretty cool and can be a real asset here at lower to mid range there is much they can do.. I hated the party system for years to be honest but now i think back and see what i missed out on and wish i would have done it sooner..

But now some complained and want a fair system. They are worried about end gamers and how they grow people to fast.. Seems to me that this proposal is best i do not agree with it but if i have to choose Bob and Ted seem the best option and closer to the core party system.


Brad we still need spell check By the way for people like me. :lol:

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Migam
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Migam »

Looking at the last 2 posts gave me pause. Will either system require participation in party to measured by damage caused? Healers heal, other psi classes attack but buff alot as well. That should be rewarded for sure.

As far as option #2, it's hard to get larger then find myself struggling to help a much smaller friend against crits I normally can destroy but that's the price of friendship :) .

I think I lean more toward #1. Sure the larger party member can kill much faster so the smaller one gains exp and skill faster but it's not the inflated gains seen. Some might see a nerf, I see more of a balance as well as the chance to gain faster than solo or with like-size party if in an area with high-hp crits that you normally take long to kill.

Google chrome is great for spellcheck btw. I'd prefer a spellcheck in lobby :oops:

Edit: you guessed it.
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Martialarts
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Martialarts »

Brad have you givin any thoughts to % of the kill and how they would be scaled back on the side kick system. I only mention this because of the way now a player gains with a party.. How about a system based on a boost of party players in a way that gains for lets say party of 5 size 18-25 maybe make gains average for levels that are with in 7 levels of each other? Skill boots and such?

Could we make system that rewards the base set of player in a party with in 7 levels would we accomplish the same thing? As i see it Skill gains and exp gains could have nice pop and encourage player to hunt with in there party limits? I dont know but it does make some sense?

Would encourage larger players to build secondarys with a group of the same size and could have the same effect as to game content. Teacher in a way to help more new players understand Drak and content? Just a thought.. I hope this is on topic..
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Brad
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Brad »

No, but i'd like it to be based on hard numbers, not some "per level" system. I have always wanted to run some sort of faux "get average damage from this player to this crit" routine.

On a side note, i'm pretty close on a test implementation of #1. I'll probably have it for players to take a look at either on test-nl, or real NL ( may get more testers that way ).

Oh, btw.. doing #1 doesnt prevent #2.. #2 is more sexy of course, but will have tons of holes to get through.

Brad

Martialarts
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Martialarts »

Brad wrote:No, but i'd like it to be based on hard numbers, not some "per level" system. I have always wanted to run some sort of faux "get average damage from this player to this crit" routine.

On a side note, i'm pretty close on a test implementation of #1. I'll probably have it for players to take a look at either on test-nl, or real NL ( may get more testers that way ).

Oh, btw.. doing #1 doesnt prevent #2.. #2 is more sexy of course, but will have tons of holes to get through.

Brad

Well i can get testers if u need.. On a side note will psi users base to kill vs barb kill rate share in the kills?

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Poldarn
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Poldarn »

im not sure this will prevent power levelling at all. The higher level crit will still kill much faster than the player would, while the player will only get the percentage based on his level, he'll be getting kills at a far superior rate then normal. the second system, is the way i'd go. they do that in eq2 i think, in "mentoring". It's a good system.

Brad
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Brad »

I think it prevents inflated power leveling. The lower level guy would only ever see the gain rate percentage of the higher level guy..

IE if it takes me 10000 kills to level, the lower level guy would take 10000 kills.

Cobra
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Cobra »

That sounds good. It would fix mormar leeching to make it on par with solo xp in cob. A party in cob would be able to gain faster than leeching in mormar as well. It also wouldn't restrict higher cob players from hunting with the newer cob players, since they all need the same xp.

Cobra

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Migam
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Migam »

Poldarn wrote:im not sure this will prevent power levelling at all. The higher level crit will still kill much faster than the player would, while the player will only get the percentage based on his level, he'll be getting kills at a far superior rate then normal. the second system, is the way i'd go. they do that in eq2 i think, in "mentoring". It's a good system.
It will definitely be a faster killlrate than you could ever do solo or partying with similar size players but it will be without that super-inflated exp gain since the exp cut currently isn't much.

I'm guessing if a 76 and 50 partied in Mormar, the intent is both hitting 77 and 51 respectively as opposed to 77 and 57 the old way, eliminating 6 levels of leech.
The difference lessens as the smaller player gets past 56 so for example a 76 and 60 would be 77 and 61 instead of 77 and 1/2way to 63, eliminating just 1.5 levels of leech.

As they get closer in size, they equalize which is the point.

Now, having multiple huge players partied with 1 smaller one might throw those inflated gains back in but again, not as inflated as before.

EDIT: Corrected 2.5 levels to 1.5 levels
Last edited by Migam on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pancho
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Pancho »

Does the lower level player gets penalized if he gets the kill shot? Does the new and improved party system apply to skill gain too?

-Pancho

Tirith
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Tirith »

I think method #2 would be nice to have for special circumstances.. such as mega lairs or events that are intended for lower levels.. rather than excluding those above a certain level.. downscale those who join the hunt to an appropriate size.. For some people who may have either characters too high to attend.. or too low.. would be the perfect solution to be able to involve more players. Could also do the method to upscale those too small so they can participate.. As rare as events are, would be nice if everyone could attend no matter their level.

Brad
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Brad »

I'm hopefully going to have a sample of #1 working today.

I think then i'm going to take a brief switch and work on 2 more content areas in NL, as a goal. Just to keep bug hunting/systems in balance with people wanting content.

Brad

PS Hard drive failed.. have a backup but i have to reinstall everything and go find my CDs for vc++ and windows.. hopefully monday i can use the map editor again!

Cheese
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Re: Request For Feedback / Grouping /Partying

Post by Cheese »

on second thought, who cares.

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