GAME DIRECTION?

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chaos
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GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

this post is for brad mostly

just curious who tells you that you should change these things in your game casue the way the game is going now i would fire that person.

who test the new content? is it open for anyone to test and give feedback or just your little group of people?

not sure if its true but lv 50 to get into momo??? why make new game content if its going to take another 6 years for people to get that far ingame?

one more thing leaching in game is not a problem with the game its a problem with older palyers probelly your little group of people that you listen to they think its ******* that someone can paly now and get there size in 6 months instead of taking the 12 years it took them well new flash guys the game has changed and now you got to make a change for the change good stuff

Cobra
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Cobra »

I think Brad is trying to figure out how best to spend his time, and what to try to do first to keep drak alive long enough to work on the rest.

In regards to leeching:

Ever since cob came out, people have been able to grow their crits fast. When the new party system was put in, one skill a day was easy. A group with a MT ment could easliy get 100 meg xp an hour. With the new party system, 18/15 can get 50/30 in less than a month in cob. This was all before lower keep was expanded for gk2 with all those giants, before UD, and before the extra arun areas.

People getting to 75/35 in a short period of time isn't the problem. Leeching is the problem. People get 75/35 without having to do anything other than logging in and attacking a party character every once in a while for skill. All classes do well in cob, and grow easily. The only problem with leeching in cob are the people that abuse certain hexes because they don't want to do the work in other areas.

NL is a whole other issue. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, people leech due to the design of NL. There are certain classes that are just bad. It's far easier, and arguably, more fun to leech those classes to max lvl, than run one's head into a wall trying to do it right. Why get a party together and hunt m16 so everyone can actually participate, when the same party can go to m17 and above, and just use a couple people in the group to destroy everything at 30x times the speed?

Cobra

chaos
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

new party system 50/30 in cob??

theres no people for the new system

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Merlin
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Merlin »

I agree with Cobra and the changes brad has made, why should you have access to a dungeon that enables you to miss cob out almost entirely?

Play the game, don't just Skip through it.

One suggestion that I will make to brad how ever is that people who already have a maxxed out top end crit should be able to skip this content if they want to.

How about adding in some Quest that will accept a Nameless Lord Scroll and a RiftGuardian Gem to acknowledge that they are maxed and grant the ability to Bribe their entry into mormar dungeon on crits <level 50.

Anything less than a level 50 in mormar is pretty much a joke considering when we all did it we were mostly in Nork gear and in mormar 1/2/3/4 which was Rough, now you expect to sit in mormar -25 leeching your way to 70?

No I'm sorry your doing it wrong.

Play the game first before complaining.

If done properly like cobra said its still possible to get level 50 pretty damn fast with the new exp system.
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chaos
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

no complaint in my post sir those are questions

i dont understand why you think you need more gifts from brad cause you played longer or something you should be able to powerlv a crit but a newer person cant? yeah thats a good fix

also fairly quick dident it take your ment like 8 months to get warning from 25-40 burning ancients?
thats a long time people like getting big fast and making new crits and in this game to play every crit to a good size would take ages unless ya paid like 120 dollars a month and run 6 accounts

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Merlin
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Merlin »

Gift from brad? people at the top end always get the sharp end of the stick because we play/test all the buggy content first so new comers can have an easy ride.

You think the first Lorsulan hunt was easy?

Or maybe the first Ajamtax?

Hell Even BanditLord was a nightmare in nork gear with 50/30 party.

Now your proposing a crit <50/30 is allowed to sit in mormar all day leeching?

as for power levelling an ALT crit on the same account as your main account is different to power levelling a completely new person to the game, they never learn how to play, max out in a few month then leave.

People who have proven they have played and completed scenarios should have some allowance when it comes to certain caps, much like the guy who gives you a pass to cob if you have earned your right but then loose it via fate or other means. This is not a gift from brad, more a feature of the game.
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dhavin
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by dhavin »

I think that there is a fundamental flaw to the "logic" that everyone is trying to inject into the conversation. Leeching is not the problem and I'll explain why; leechers are the symptom of the underlying problem, that many areas of the game are mind numbingly boring. Cobrahn can be largely chalked up as a series of unrelated encounters that have no rhyme or reason that a person must now endure hours of, in order to progress.

That isn't fun, it's punishment.. so the natural course of player evolution produced a group of people who worked within the rule system to find the most efficient method of sidestepping the tedium. We are now rewarded with more rules changing, that do not address the underlying problem. What will be the result? ...the natural course of player evolution produced a group of people who worked within the rule system to find the most efficient method of sidestepping the tedium. I could go on, but I think everyone sees the loop.

The end result will be a game so bogged down with handicaps, few will enjoy playing it. I've already seen roughly half of the people I played with three months ago leave due to the first round of changes. The game needs a major overhaul, to make it interesting for new people. The tutorial work being done is an excellent step in the right direction, but I would like to see more work done on Nork and Cobrahn to tie together what amounts to a series of random lairs with quests, like Aleria is to a moderate degree.

Change just for the sake of change, is the methodology of a cancer cell.

chaos
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

ok new players paly a few months and get 70/30 or whatever or they paly a few months and get what 20/18 either way there going to quit in a few months

and another thing whats being done about skill i think you should put in something liek the xp where it gets cut with so many people and line of sight or a higher lv person doing it cause its the same amount of time unless you got your mighty gokus around

the xping shows more results then skilling thats why people do it

and with my nice convo with tir il say this again the extreame leeching problem in momo is because your super sayin warriors are to sweet with there sweeps make it more like the ment tiers where they may actually kill you or your party would be a good idea but like tir said theres to many MAS that would be willing to agree to change there guys

chaos
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

also someone mentioned in chat that a pre nl after cob area would be nice
and i think so to

chaos
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

maybe even a alt2 cob with the speed of alt 2 if thats possiable or double the gains like you did with aleria a few years back

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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Teh_Cheat »

It seems to me that these fixes are just plugs to some of the loopholes in the game.

Mormar was designed for the primal players in the game. It was given huge experience gains because of how great the difference was in each level from 56 to 75. There is a reason each level from 19 to 50 are an exact figure. That figure wasn't supposed to be bypassed in Mormar where you can gain almost 3 levels an hour.

I would love a fix for Ajamtax. It'd be refreshing to see how many people have k4 enchants or even know how to get enchanted for k4.

This second wave of fixes didn't change anything about the areas that can be hunted in. Once you make level 25 you can still head over to forgottens for skill and dornar for experience. If you get tired of hunting there, go try some of the higher levels of UD for growing.
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Yohon
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Yohon »

I'm sorry but the idea that players who have "been there done that" should have some sort of advantage over new players is just ego talking, I played "back in the day" too and just because the game was designed as a time sink when we all payed by the hour and signed up on a calendar to take our turn at reggie doesnt mean we need to go back to the 1990's again. While I dont understand the changes being made neither am I overly upset over them, I'll admit I dont understand why they'd want to discourage anyone from playing, and IMHO if anyone thinks a few advertisements are going to bring folks back in droves to a 20+ year old 2D game I'd say respectfully they are dreaming.
If someone can tell me why Id want to bring friends to the game when I'm being discouraged from helping them level to a point where they can help in lairs etc and not take 3 years doing it Id appreciate it

dhavin
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by dhavin »

That's pretty well said yohon. I would be marginally embarrassed to invite some of my friends to try this game, to convince them it was worth sticking out and then to say well, you're going to have to grind at this for at least 6 months before you can even think about spending "quality" time with me in a pj. I don't ask anyone to play this anymore, and the people I have asked in the past simply shake their head and say, you're still playing that stupid game? Last post from me, I give up.

OmegaCrits
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by OmegaCrits »

I activated my accounts a week ago, already have them setup to expire. I did, however, make a new account with no NL access, so maybe I will kick it as old school as possible by just playing in Nork, maybe it will remind me of how KOD was a exciting and thriving game, not the disappointment it has turned out to be over the past few years.
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Tirith »

Care to elaborate more on the issue the thread is talking about Auron or just randomly decided to let people in this thread know what you are doing? You didnt say why your accts are set to expire but yet to mention how the game has been the past few years? I would say the recent updates show that there is some effort into fixing the game to what it was previously... you should give more input.

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Merlin
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Merlin »

chaos wrote:ok new players paly a few months and get 70/30 or whatever or they paly a few months and get what 20/18 either way there going to quit in a few months

70/30? thats a joke anyway, considering you should be 50/30 before you start NL.

So basically despite 31-35 being the fastest skills in the game you have only hunted one area for 20 levels for the hell of it then you claim the game is boring?

Sure I'd find it boring if I persisted to do the same thing and ignore all the other content.


So your quote should really read, play a few months and get 70/30, realise you cant hit anything in game anymore, then complain that the content is boring?

And when a player gets to 20/18 I'm sure they don't quit after a few months, cob is one of the most interesting scenarios in this game and at this level/skill your just about to start really opening up your characters abilities at a pretty nice pace.

Maybe you missed out on that and went straight to NL to leech until level 70? Who am I to day this.

Did you ever try to do any of cobs more challenging content like a Lazloth hunt or a GiantKing hunt prior to level 51+?

There are some of us who spent years solving this content and finding ways to kill certain lairs with what we had, we didn't go sit in another dungeon for 20 levels and come back, over power everything, then complain that the content is boring.

Its boring because you didn't play the game as intended.
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Cobra
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Cobra »

I agree with John. You can still do the easy NL areas for fast skill, faster than cob ever offered. The reason you see people grinding for xp, is because you can easily be 18/30 doing forgs in nork gear, if that's how fast you want to grow. Personally, I liked cob where I could easily get a level every couple of days, and a skill a day doing upper keep. This puts you around 33/30, then all the game really opens up to you to get that xp. You can survive everywhere in cob because of skill, you can xp in NL, and you're big enough to explore the hard places in nork that have some good xp if you know where to look. The existing content has plently to offer to get one to lvl 50. With the xp boost after 50, any class can get to 55 with a little work. Barbs/MAs can solo giants for 350k a kill, other classes can sit in dornar and actually hunt it solo without being dead all the time.

Then at 55 you're ready for primal and DL areas. I would highly suggest doing forge first and getting skill 34, you'll probably get to lvl 58 or so while getting skill, then you'll be ready for mormar.

I think the progression areas pre-NL are fine. People just want to rush to mormar, and only go to x spot in nork, y spot in cob, and z spot in NL for xp. Then they have their 70/20, realize that they have to get skill, and there's no burn spot after z, so they quit.

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Migam
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Migam »

chaos wrote:
and with my nice convo with tir il say this again the extreame leeching problem in momo is because your super sayin warriors are to sweet with there sweeps make it more like the ment tiers where they may actually kill you or your party would be a good idea but like tir said theres to many MAS that would be willing to agree to change there guys
Now, that would help fix some of the leech problem right there, I wonder how your guild MAs feel about you suggesting this though. I hope Brad does it, maybe with 15% chance to hit party. Add 5 MAs, stir and ahhhhh!!! ... literally.


Lotta me-toos posted here from same guild, very credible, you share forum accounts too? All of you benefited from the Race to the Top (though maybe it was more like that oops some NYer used). Yet one person suggests that once you get there, a quest that makes it's easier for the other slots and it's all moaning about how unfair... older players want an advantage. Unfair to who? All of you are already there and this makes it simpler also for all of your guild, less restrictions for all your slots. New players can learn the game as it was intended then do the same. Just because some of the older players mention we played for 10 years, doesn't mean growing the whole time; many were stuck at 50/30, playing other slots or are stuck now. NL made them grow and their other slots did too, much faster. But 2 months or less from roller to 78, that is ridiculous.

Any change suggested that might slow you or your new friends down, shouted down, threats to cancel accounts (and this is more than 1 guild). Your friends have to grind for 6 months so they can hunt with you in SDH? So what? Drakkar isn't Nintendo, there aren't published cheat codes, let them go play their Wii for instant gratification if they can't grow without leeching. We don't need more immature tweens here anyway.

It's funny how these players are saying times have changed and Drak should too and then attack me and others for asking Brad for fixes so that Drak isn't going to become like every other game.... why? It's not bad enough that all those games will bend over backwards due to the fattest wallets (or many more wallets), now you want Drak to follow suit? 99% isn't enough, you have to try to make Drak conform too? Why did you even come here then? Not everything needs to be revamped with an Easy button just cause kids are anxious and needy.

One of you told me to get my head out of the sand... he can kindly remove his head from somewhere else. I'm accused of being oldschool because I actually have values and I barely even played iEN, far from true oldschool, but I'm certainly not jealous of other players or guilds.

You have all those games to choose from to play, it's YOU that are trying to ruin Drak, to have it be just another one of those douche games. Some WoW guy has what?... 39 computers, keyboards, software to be his own army there? Come on! Where is the teamplay in that? Yeah it's his money but it's wrong but WoW just rings their register and don't care. Maybe Drak should limit an IP to 3 accounts usage at a time so at least the 12man zerg requires at least 4 humans.

This is a 2D isometric topdown, yes, not popular especially among children. There are many huge online games out there that you can powerlevel and grow until you claim they are "stupid easy", a joke, put another notch in your belt and sell account.

Why not let Brad finish what he started and then see? If he makes a change and gets feedback, he can study and make a decision. He taketh and giveth. If it's all illiterate rant and threats he sees in an email or post, he's probably not even going to read it.

Also, I see many brag how many accounts they have and their buying power. Well here's simple math question, only an example! If a guild has 5 members and they each have only 1 account they pay for and all take turns and share accounts most of the day, are there 25 accounts or still 5?
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Cobra
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Cobra »

In response to Yohon:

I think advertising will work for drakkar. Granted we're not talking about 1000s of people coming in and starting to play. Drakkar is a niche game and will never have mass appeal. A year or so ago there was a thread about 200+ players, I think that with advertising, this could be reached. Having an add on a page that a ton of people see will at least get some to click on it. Even fewer will dl and install, and even less will stick around. But if through all that drakkar gets 5 players a month hooked by the niche of the game, then it's worth it.

Back in the golden days, 120 online at a time was amazing. We're not talking a lot of accounts here, advertising will never get drakkar to true MMO status. Will it give it new life with a new player base, I believe so.

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OmegaCrits
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by OmegaCrits »

Actually after reading Migams reply on this thread, I sat here and thought about it for a minute and came to realized that I was trying to compare Drakkar to WoW. Which are on two completely different playing fields, imo. They do have some similarities though as far as having more high end content available. WoW has the advantage of a fully staffed team that works on that for a living, and Drakkar does not, that now just clicked in my head. Both games have issues with lack of or imcompleted game content, WoW can easily fix that within months, and I guess I was expecting the same out of Drakkar, which just isn't possible with the current amount of people that work on this game, and most that do, are doing this on the side from their real life responsibilities. I'm understanding that now. The only issue that I can really say I have with KoD is the cost, but at least I can play this game for free if I chose to unlike other online games.

About my other post, honestly, I was hoping to spark some interest in some of the older players that may review the forums to join me in starting a new account, paying the min. to have access to alt2/aleria/cob, and just enjoy those scenarios without the temptation of just going to NL.
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Mars »

Omega:

Actually everyone who provides support and/or programming does so on the side from other responsibilities, even Brad. We all have full time jobs and keep Drakkar alive on the side as we can. It's not easy sometimes, but we do it so the game stays around. It's been here over 20 years, I want to see a 30 year anniversary.

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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by OmegaCrits »

Mars wrote:Omega:

Actually everyone who provides support and/or programming does so on the side from other responsibilities, even Brad. We all have full time jobs and keep Drakkar alive on the side as we can. It's not easy sometimes, but we do it so the game stays around. It's been here over 20 years, I want to see a 30 year anniversary.

I hope to see a 30 year anniversary as well, I'm sure there will be a nice event attached to that milestone. :) Also, I would like to thank all those who have put aside the time to make sure that this game stays alive.
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chaos
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by chaos »

you only get skill one place at skill 30 so dont tell you you should be skill 30 befor going to nl thats a bunch of bull
and why is it ok for someone to max skill at a low lv but not max lv at a low skill? it takes the same amount of time but honestly i dont care about the leeching for my self i care about it for the new players apparently what ever your doing is not working the new change should have came after you get people in game cause you put a big gap between cob and nl new guilds and people got alot ahead of them with less people to do it with

also i dont know about drak being like wow that game is horrible

for advertising anyone think drak could make yahoo front page or something for being so old maybe? that might attract some players i know this game is up there

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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Stormwind »

It's about time. This game was always about providing a challenge and serious repercussions for bad luck or just plain stupidity. Glad to see some of those loopholes closed. I bet if brad rolled back all the primal people who don't have a K-4 enchant, we'd see a bunch of the current 70+ crowd evaporate.

Yes, players who have done it before or who have friends should advance faster and they do, because knowing how to play the game properly and having a big buddy to feed you coin and protect you with high levels discs really ramps up your advancement. The premo gear you can get as a result also helps boost your survability and therefore makes you grow faster.

I've been around along time. We've lost a lot of quality players because these stupid loopholes didn't get fixed in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe if this trend continues we'll get them back. If you want to play a game that is stupid easy to advance in, go play WoW.

Bravo!

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Migam
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Re: GAME DIRECTION?

Post by Migam »

chaos wrote:you only get skill one place at skill 30 so dont tell you you should be skill 30 befor going to nl thats a bunch of bull
and why is it ok for someone to max skill at a low lv but not max lv at a low skill? it takes the same amount of time but honestly i dont care about the leeching for my self i care about it for the new players apparently what ever your doing is not working the new change should have came after you get people in game cause you put a big gap between cob and nl new guilds and people got alot ahead of them with less people to do it with

also i dont know about drak being like wow that game is horrible

for advertising anyone think drak could make yahoo front page or something for being so old maybe? that might attract some players i know this game is up there
You can get TO sk30 in any scenario otherwise 50/29 would have been the pre-NL max. He wasn't talking about skilling WHILE sk30.

As far as advertising, well, players have the attitude that they prefer WoW-type games. As mentioned above, this is a niche game and as such has limited appeal, mostly to, yes, those that are oldschool who remember when it was new. So, where do you advertise? I've joined and commented on RPG Facebook sites, not sure if anyone joined because of this. Maybe others here can do the same. Yes, we pay for the game but it's not a money machine and those who truly care will make the effort to help Brad spread the word vs. blaming Brad for years. But, be aware, there aren't many RPG groups there; the huge number of groups for any gaming (online, console or computer) are already game-specific like WoW or GTA, not genre-specific.

Look at Wikipedia. Kingdom of Drakkar was put there and a bunch of morons decided to get it deleted each time. Yet Legends of Kesmai, which is gone 10 years ago except for pirated copies, is still there thanks to special interests who want to protect it. Very unfair and onesided but our own opinion mattered not at all.

I've seen hiders come in dz and say "Wow? Only 40 players, I remember when blah blah blah" just because they quit or were banned. Some are current players being douches. Well, lower membership is not due to Drak but time. LoK and Drak both were just a few of available online RPGS played thru Compuserve, etc. hourly when homes were just starting to buy computers in the early 80s, there was no real consumer internet like today; only dialup services like Compuserve, etc, woohoo, 300 baud! Both games filled the needs of players who weren't into the whole "dungeonmaster, rolling dice and having some doofus trip and wipe out the gameboard over the weekend".

Then the internet boomed, you didn't need Compuserve and AOL and their lousy $6.25/hour when LoK was available to through Gamestorm for $9.95/month and Drakkar went monthly-rate. No more rationing gameplay time. However, once baudrates jumped again, others joined in and hence the mass of online game choices. Many other vices exploded too. I've lost many guildees to WoW, etc, but not to games that are 2D like Tibia, etc. It's the genre they left; not Drak. Some come back.

Edit: Misspelled doofus :|
Last edited by Migam on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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