Player Discussion Thread

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Tirith
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Tirith » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:33 pm

Thank you John.. We are in the same mindset it seems. The leeching problem should have been fixed years ago when it started.. but its better late than never.. It's time for these players to learn how to actually play their characters and grow them without sitting in a party doing nothing.

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Quaternion
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Quaternion » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:32 pm

I'm somewhat confused exactly on the definition of leeching, it seems to me that perhaps this is being conflated with power growing.

Leeching refers to killing for exp with a high level character to gain low level characters lots of exp with no danger whatsoever. Power growing is a player with growing a character fast using their previously leant knowledge. Now currently i can do the following to powergrow:

Run a few MAs and healer maybe have a pally defending the small characters. Might be slightly more awkward than before but if you are lucky enough to have access to MAs you can do fine. This is powergrowing as the small characters are in danger.

Given that this is the case why is it that one class namely MAs are being allowed to 'powergrow' when others cannot? Therefore to balance this out why not have it so that a ment, a thief, pally and even an fm can do the same for the party as an MA. Currently there is a clear imbalance.

However it now seems that it isn't leeching that people have a problem with but powergrowing. If it is now the objective to stop this i reiterate my earlier point that a more complex algorithm to assess party contribution would be required. Such algorithm could take into account all kinds of variables such as, buffing, damage dealt, damage deflected, defending done, heals given etc. to assess if a player is actually contributing.

What is trying to be done? Stop fast growth altogether or just fast growth for no effort? Currently neither is being stopped.

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Tirith
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Tirith » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:48 pm

Fast growth with no effort should be stopped. Not sure how this is being misconstrued. I think its ok if the player is in danger.. but hiding around a corner is not being in danger. I am all for your idea as well quaternion.. if its possible for brad.. then it may be better than line of sight only.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Teh_Cheat » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:55 pm

The two go hand in hand in most cases.

I could care less if an experienced player grows an alt, and is trying to build it up to a max level character quickly. This player has learned the ins/outs of the game, and it doesn't hurt the overall community of the game if this player has many characters that are of a max level.

What does hurt the game is when said player isn't growing their own alt, but just finding a couple new players and advancing them through the game causing the new players to miss much of the game as it is intended to be played, getting them to a max level, and your finished product is a player that has the capability to be a strong/experienced player, but hasn't learned some of the smaller details of the class other than what tier does what.

A couple years ago, it appeared to me that most groups consisted of one or two of these smart/experienced players and the rest were the newbies they had picked up along the way who just did what they were told. This was the start of a bad trend.

Now it seems like the community has turned into the remnants of these new era players where they make up most of the population of the end game crits, and there are only a handful of the experienced ones left.

To make my point clear, I've always generally gotten along with most even though my guildmates might not have, and I enjoyed the competition that the other groups brought to the game, and along with that competition came my respect to a good deal of the players in these rival groups. There aren't many players I respect anymore. Some still play, but most have left. I could care less if a player is the same level as me, but I'd like that player to be in the same class as me.

( You're idea of devising some kind of algorithim to establish what it means to be in danger/safe in the game is a good idea. )
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Quaternion
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Quaternion » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:20 am

I think its ok if the player is in danger.. but hiding around a corner is not being in danger.
The problem now, as i see it is that if you have MAs you can powergrow/leech unlike any other class because you have no danger of killing party members. This is a clear bias towards the MA class. My suggestion of allied avoidance for others would rebalance this. Of course one could go the other way and make allied avoidance for MA less than 100% effective. However if this was done MAs sweep so much and so hard that anything less than 100% might as well be 0%.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:52 am

Seems to me old players who have been here and stood the test of time should not be penalized because of the few.. And that goes vice versa. Been here longer then most and i do mean most. So whats the answer.. You want the game turned down then make it solo-able then all this bickering can stop.

If i make a class Like my ma once i attained that lvl that can help others and i do so then i am helping for what reason? I help because i remember that slow repetive task Of grinding every day for 3 years.. I am personally tired of it all I came here because of the people not to say i like them all.. There are but a few i trust enough to play with but i help all who need a dp gathered and those having a rough time...

I keep saying this the 1st few months of Drak the questing was awesome. once 14/14 skill i moved to aleria i found it a very fun place.. once i hit 18/17 i went to Cob to tell you the truth an 18/17 anything there should go back to nork or Aleria.. To be effective you must be a 23/22 anything but once there skill is pretty good and even better if u have ugh and chit..

I was skill locked after 1 year 30/30 had to stay on ud 3.5 for exp could not kill effectively anywhere else. I left for a few years bored out of my mind.. Got a buddy interested in the game took him as far as i could at 30/30 he left me and went zoom i was 34/30 and he made 68/34 helped me a ton in NL. I purchased nl from almost day one never could use it... after 6 Months to a year 75/37 off to sdc then 76/38 and someone help me attain a talon since i could not kill anything in sdc by myself.. And went to 78/39 i was efftive but still to small got help from the guild to gather items..

I learned about the ways of sdc and bdc so i powered lvl me a thief and power skilled him.. I paid my dues of years of grinding away.. Now i am being penalized for my knowledge and helping those along the way its just silly... Drakkar is a game i have always truly loved but after this last go around with Brad and the everyone in the meeting not sure how i feel so im off to try other things to see what happens no straight answer kinda left up in the air.. Brad are you listening? I think not really many care and its not important..

One thing i have always said its about customer service not ignoring me seems most games online are that way. Shows you if your rude to your customers its ok it is the new way to keep you in place i guess.. Have fun will tell you there a ton of grate idea's here from many but the few still lead the way and most are ignored..

No anger just obersavtions on my part not a personal attack on anyone.. MA (we need spell check in here to)
Last edited by Martialarts on Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Fin » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:16 am

I agree with a lot of the comments regarding "Leeching" I am against grabbing a group of newbies and powerleveling them to rediculous levels with no game knowledge. My comments and thoughts on leeching were only regarding when I play my two accounts together. Like others have stated, I got my main crit to 75/35 and it took like 8 years. I have experienced the game and done most of the quests. I started a second account for the purpose of growing secondary characters so that I can experience certain aspects of the game from a different perspective. Considering that I'm now 8 years older, I have a full time job, kids, and other time consuming aspects of my life, the thought of starting a new character and having to grind the exp with the changes to the party system is not tempting in the least. There are days I don't have time to play and days where I can only play for about an hour. The previous method of gaining exp made it so that I could reach goals regarding skill and exp within a reasonable amount of time. With the recent changes it will take far longer to reach those goals and to be honest I am not sure that I want to do the grind all over again.
Perhaps I'm no longer the target market for the game, but there has to be a happy medium for those purists who are firmly against leeching in all aspects, and those of us who have reached a certain level and mearly want to get the secondaries growing without losing interest in the game.
Fin

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by dhavin » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:40 am

Fin wrote:... and to be honest I am not sure that I want to do the grind all over again.
There's no way I'd do it again. At the rate I can play (between family and full time work) it would take me a few years to get my level 21 thief to level 25. That's just not going to happen, so I don't need to maintain a secondary account anymore, which saves me $18/month.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Yohon » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:40 pm

Not sure I follow the logic here, I can understand why you'd be proud of taking 8 years to level to 75, but we're talking when there were a LOT more players online, dont really see how making new content that 45 people will see because the other 30 or so new players will take years to get there makes a lot of sense, then again Im not really complaining just wondering out loud, i've noticed a lot of the comments in the DZ seem to be stuck back in 1995 also from both players and sysop(s) but dont make as much sense when you've got 45 people in there and 15 or more are multiple accounts. I really enjoy Drak for the third time around but to be honest I'm not sure I'd stay or recommend it to friends when I cannot help them other than to say, here is the entrance to N-1, see ya in 3 years or so but I'll guess we'll see how it works. But like Brad said he's gonna take heat either way lol so hope this isnt misunderstood, its just my unedumacated opinion...flame on if you wish :|

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Migam » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:50 am

From either forums or Main chat, it was said players are making 3 levels per hour in Mormar, that's an issue especially when those players just started playing the game. They join a guild with large players, exp to Cob, live in UD5 til 25, quests done and are on m16+. The most they know is how "long and tedious" to get exp burned in Aleria for them, how to get dexxed to ud5 to leech while afk and how to get MTed to Mornar in their sleep. They swing at party members for skill gains. Then they are taught what tiers to use and how.

I also don't want to take 8 years to get to 75 on each slot like my pally did. But honestly, what has always happened when you get a new video game and finish it in 5 hours of non-stop playing? It's called a joke, no good and not a challenge then many don't want to buy it. Drakkar isn't a video game but it's the same premise. Let at least the new player learn the game some, stop begging for PL'ing and make em work at least on the 1st crit. Maybe other slots can get grown faster (even though growing an experienced MA and knowing it's ins and outs then PL'ing and playing a ment is a total change in tactics, skills and mindset). How many times has my pally moved along walls like he's hiding? :D

Honestly, with LoS in, doing Cob to 25 (or maybe have to stay til 50?) will take a lonnnnnnnnnng time. I wish there was a Cob+ or NL- that allowed more exping/skilling in survivable areas (like pillars but harder) so that you rather not go to Mormar unless you "have" to (the skill gain would be better too).

What is an acceptable amount of time to hit 75 for your firsttime or next slot? One year? Six months? Maybe this is what should be discussed to give Brad an idea. I'm not in love with every idea and change made but I rather take one for the game if it gives the game some creds.

It seems there is a general assumption that large players just want to keep smaller ones down... don't assume that for all of us; this has been aimed at me too and it's very untrue. I just don't think going from 1 to 75 in 1 or 2 months (some have said it's far less time) is right even if you took a long time to grow your first. I'd like to grow an MA, barb and ment and the changes happening or what I have suggested will slow me down hugely but I'd rather do what's better for the spirit of the game than have that game be bullied by threats because everyone wants to farm AA for gear, blah blah blah. I expect the same retorts, flames from the groups thinking I'm that bad guy who hates the new players.

Seriously, ask yourselves... do you really care about Drak or is it just to get it done and move on? All of you be honest for a change.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
---Pathfinder

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Cobra
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Cobra » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:39 am

I grew my barb in NL solo'ing on m16, fighting one mob at a time. The pace was good in my book, I could play all day (16+ hours) and get close to 1 bil xp. It was also a good place for groups because you could reasonably control how many mobs you wanted to get. Part of the leech problem is there are lvls where there are endless crits and you don't usually have to move more than a screen to get a new zoo. Maybe thin out the mobs in deep mormar to make people move around more, and make it more survivable for the squishy classes.

I think most of the problem with leeching, is that some classes that's all they can really do. Sure, you can cast tiers on the mobs, but does it really speed up the killing that much when there's hasted MAs killing? I could spend all day on my ment tiering mobs in mormar, drinking zaps like crazy to kill stuff, or I can let the MA kill them all; which is just as fast on the other 100 crits on hex, and just sit and watch the xp flow.

It's not so much that people want to leech, it's effort vs reward. Spam tiers, get killed by mob, get rezzed, and do it again to try to kill a mob, or sit and let the MA kill everything with virtually no danger. It's the way the game is designed in NL that makes the leeches, not the players that want to get big quick.

As to game pacing, it's insanely fast to get 75/35 on a 2nd when you learned the game on your 1st. Which I dont think in itself is bad. It's when others tag along for the ride that the issue arises.

Game knowledge is very powerful, and that's the problem with the way the game is set up now. All people try to do is burn to cob, to burn to NL, to leech in mormar. I think this is due, once again, to the way NL is designed. Back in nork and cob, people were able to play and learn their class because they could solo with them and learn for themselves what works best. With NL, there are classes that simply can not be grown solo (realistically), and the best and arguably, funnest way to grow them, is to sit and leech. I'm all for the grind, I've done it all from km5 to upper keep, to forestkins, and m16 to lvl 75, but make it so everyone can have fun (nork and cob).

Cobra

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:57 am

Migam wrote: Honestly, with LoS in, doing Cob to 25 (or maybe have to stay til 50?) will take a lonnnnnnnnnng time. I wish there was a Cob+ or NL- that allowed more exping/skilling in survivable areas (like pillars but harder) so that you rather not go to Mormar unless you "have" to (the skill gain would be better too).

What is an acceptable amount of time to hit 75 for your firsttime or next slot? One year? Six months? Maybe this is what should be discussed to give Brad an idea. I'm not in love with every idea and change made but I rather take one for the game if it gives the game some creds.


Seriously, ask yourselves... do you really care about Drak or is it just to get it done and move on? All of you be honest for a change.

Well most of the post is on target 3 years to build a main is not out of the question.. I think once you make a large critt to better experaince the game you have to make a secondary one to do what you want not to sit around for 3 to 5 years building it not on my life..

I have met the challange why is it wrong to aquire other types of chartors? Drak has always been dear to me and i dont want to go away but im not gonna be happy until things get worked out.. I also think if more of it was able to be soloed are at least have fun in gdh or bdc or even sdc then this topic would not be an issue.

To date i have seen nothing that makes me want to play in an area thats not fun for the main chartors we fell in love with.. I would rather play my main and explore the area more but in reality i can't. So then i make one that can do more alone and no i get told i cant build it unless i want to get into trouble?

The whole thing is a mess excuse the rambling and its not a personal attack on what your saying i agree with it for the most part.. No player should be powered leveled just to have a person stick around.. Ones who have been there done that need to have an understanding about the basics of Drak if they do not then might as well play tiddle winks..

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by srflynn64 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:03 am

To the point Cobra was saying, this is the reason for all the changes in Mormar.

Its been done so that squishy classes are able to go in and carry on soloing which is what some people enjoy doing. I for one have grown my FM to 57/30/29 on its own. Yeah i leeched 5 levels before quitting in morm using one of my other chars but always wanted to do it solo but it was never viable with the way mobs were in morm.

I for one am glad that Brad has listened and made it so morm can be done and enjoyed for those that want to carry on with the solo building of a char. With the exp amounts given there too, it still wont take long to get to 75 hopefully...The only hastle the FM has is when getting a few mobs on it coz of mobs becoming runners as its not fully quirked etc, but for those that dont have gold and UGH etc its now made morm more playable

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Fin » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:58 am

Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way. What if we looked at the leeching problem from another angle. The why. Did someone get up one morning and decide to screw the other players that worked hard and got to high levels with a method of easy exp? I doubt it. I believe that most inventions are through necessity. The players that first started leeching in ud5 were likely sick of the grind and worked out a new way to do the grind easier. Still a grind but much faster.
Or maybe that area in ud5 was designed for the sole purpose of raising an army. Did the developers create an area where mobs regened on one hex in three different rooms, and regened on several in one room, and the AI did not allow the mobs to wander into the fountain room where a party can stand safe by accident? Also, the party system didnt always allow for you to gain exp and skill without being seen by the leader. I remember that being changed a few years ago so that crits gained without being seen. My theory is that people complained soooo much about the grinding that little changes here and there were implemented to appease the larger players at the time. What could it hurt, the rest of the players were far from being able to utilize such a method due to the difficulty of the area itself. After several crits in NL got huge it was only a matter of time before the cycle started. Players leeched in ud5, then players leeched in NL. Which wasnt that bad because NL was beta, and many guilds had to "bend" the rules to get crits into the high end areas. That left the game with a whole bunch of high end players that abused the system, or took advantage of it, whichever way you want to look at it, and little to do but wait for more content. Now the game is at a critical point. The high end players arent playing because there isnt new content. The lower end players now have to learn ways to make gains within a reasonable amount of time to not powerlevel, but still maintain interest. Many of us more experienced players now have half done side projects that we now have to figure out new methods of growing fast so we stay interested.
Maybe we should continue this conversation with guidelines from the boss. Maybe Brad can drop some of the mystery and let us know what his expectations are.
How long should it take a character go from lvl 1 to 18?
How long should it take to get from lvl 18 to 25, or 40 even since the party system has changed?
How long should it take to go from lvl 40 to 55?
How long should it take to go from lvl 55 to 75+?
I feel like we can get some productive ideas and solutions if we better know what the problem is.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Cobra » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:52 pm

I think people will be able to figure out how to gain fast with the new system. I don't really see 1-25 as being 'broke' if brad wants to keep the core game feel going. It all hinges on what he expects new people to do. I think the biggest issue is people just rush by it to get to NL to grow faster, and be where the player base is at now.

If the game were to get a bunch of new people, they would be there together in old nork and would learn stuff together. Once they figure out where to go for the gains, 18/15 could easily be reached within two months of starting. Most of nork is about finding out where best to hunt for your class. Also, I can only think of one lair in nork that can't be killed by 18/15s.

I think cob is good until around 25 or 30. There's only so much to see and do before you're just cranking out 420 megs xp again for the next lvl. I think this is where we lose the people that have been hooked by the game. They've made it through nork and cob, but don't stand a chance in NL. Maybe make the transition from upper cob lvl range 30-35 into lower NL range (35-40) a little easier.

I know when NL came out, everyone hunted forgs because it was insanely fast skill. Then everyone did dornar because it was insanely fast xp. Try to make it so that hunting in area X is roughly the same as area Y. People gravitate to the best areas of the game to xp/skill/coin, try to even it out to give people options. I know that it is like trying to nail jello to the wall to design, but most areas just turn into one good hunting spot that everyone fights over.

Hopefully in all these posts we get some good ideas bouncing around that no one has thought of yet.

Cobra

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Fin » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:59 pm

Cobra, you pretty much nailed it. At about the time you get going in cob its so slow that its very easy to lose interest. I think that is the root for all the leeching and shortcuts. Thats why I think we need Brad to let us in a little. We are doing a ton of brainstorming for him here at least let us have some parameters by which we can brainstorm.

Brad
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Brad » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:21 pm

RE: Thread direction.

As per the conference, we are looking for ideas on:

- Direction to take development efforts in the short/medium/long term
Short: Fix bugs, adjust content that is quickly adjustable
Medium: Get some more of SDC in, update some nork content, add a few lairs
Long: New tutorial ( etc ), general direction, leveling speed, etc.


So, game direction medium/long term is the real question here.

Brad

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:19 pm

I agree with most comments i just have a problem with the way the ones who have been here get it stuck in the bum so to speak.. I have helped new players here learn the way of nork. I might have even helped a few get some items..

The larger pitcure is all this talk of kicking people out of the game for making more then one account to enjoy different aspects of the game just don't make sense to me. If it were not for a few players when i first came to drak i would have left the 1st part of learning was incredably hard to make sense of it.. There in lies the problem with the game generating new players so hard to figure out who and what..

Its why i said make each learning experaince a small mini quest with a modest gain of exp skill or an item. Once they understand how to move speak and work a critt they will stay...

I spoke to Mars and was told that if i load a program that helps me move the critts that are on my account its banable ok so i just closed them.. Now what to do game is over on that one issue.. I have closed that accounts and others owned by me so as not to get in trouble.. So then what seems to me that is all i can say... Not sure i want to stick it out in Cob or aleria and remake critters.. I think Drak has a great family for most part helping your family is always fun but at some point nl is just there. You cant do or go anywere with out support since 90% of the bigger players cant solo an area we make it fun by building accounts that can do different things in the game..

I don't know Brad seems as if we are going backwards not forwards... For me i am not sure were i will be but i know Me and Mazie have explored as much as we could on our own and it was still impossable for the most part... I see it as a real issue not trying to hold small players back but trying to up lift them into game content will be 5xs harder then it was before...

Excuse the ramblings on dead issues but seem to me a level playing field is needed not more heartache.. There will always be people that will abuse the game there hear for a very short time a flash in the pan so to speak.. Making it harder on all the players is just not the answer finding a middle ground and stop finger pointing.

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Quaternion
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Quaternion » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:58 pm

It's understandable that the current changes being made are an attempt to address leeching so that players remain engaged with the game for longer thereby bringing in sustained revenue and not simply growing to 75/35 and leaving in a couple of months.

However I wonder if this thinking is perhaps too focused on the 'morality' argument rather than the 'reality' of the current game. That is many of us seem to think it is simply unfair that what we took years to do can be done in months. I admit I do find this rather annoying but perhaps I should just accept it as the reality of the game, as it has been thus for many years. In fact in some sense I have embraced this new game by power growing my own alts.

When considering these changes from realistic perspective one should consider how many accounts are being paid for by those interested in power levelling and may possibly leave should they not be able to do so versus how many accounts would join and stay active due to harder and slower growth.

My feeling is that a great many people will actually leave while very few will join (partly due to lack of advertising). Those of us who have replied to the this thread love this game and want to see it succeed but who among us can honestly say they would start a new character and proceed to do the long grind again? As Fin pointed out for many of us our lives have changed. Years ago we could spend days and even weeks at the grind stone now we can't.

I also think many of the people who start this game are in the same position. It's retro style appeals to players of a certain age who are generally not those young enough to have the time to spend countless hours on a game. Those kind of people go to fancy 3d games.

Unfortunately I am of the opinion that while well intentioned should these changes succeed in preventing leeching it may long term do more harm than good. If it isn't successful in preventing leeching, which is highly likely as people are ingenious when it comes to finding ways to gain, then the statu quo is maintained and the changes become pointless.

The only things I see saving this game (which preventing leeching isnt one) is a concerted effort to advertise and extensive development of new content akin to whole scenarios such as Aleria or Cobrahn that takes more than a few days to complete.

I hope my assessment of the situation is wrong but it looks destined to fail.

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Tirith
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Tirith » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:42 pm

It's simple.. The drakkar we all play today is not the same drakkar the many players fell in love with so many years ago. When we bring back the original spirit of the game, I believe many of the old players who have since left will return and the new blood will continue to stick around. As it currently is, when new players join.. they either lose interest and quit due to lack of people to hunt or play with around their size or they stick around until a bigger crit comes along, scoops them up and gives them the gift of power leveling. Now if we eliminate the power leveling noobies, there will be other noobies on the small end to keep the other ones around. This is my belief, I also believe all my old friends would return to play a game that actually requires skill and time to grow.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Yohon » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:42 am

The spirit is not the same, and I cannot see how it possibly could be without dropping NL, Cob and possibly Aleria. Given the insanely small nitch market this game would have I honestly dont see 100's of people suddenly popping in and spending 3 years leveling to 25 like 'the old days' It would be nice I suppose but to be honest it wasnt all that great spending weeks on n-4, or waiting until "power guilds" got done with reggie so we could try and sneak one in, or searching weeks for the SNR, or getting ate by the BD and getting set back months in hits and exp etc. I guess Im not understanding the "spirit of the game" your talking about. Now before ya flame on let me say I'm enjoying playing, and the recent changes dont really matter to me much other than making it harder to bring a few friends here, handing them a yeti and a couple raks and saying see ya in a few years.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Brad » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:50 am

Just to keep things focused a bit. I enjoy the debate, but lets not blow the exp gain fixes out of proportion. Nothing prevents partying with your friends, nothing prevents power leveling friends, the only desired effect is that party members can't sit off idle while you fight for them.

All other side effects of the changes are being worked out ( some thief DOT issues, which just got fixed the other day, a couple line of sight issues, which are already fixed)

I think plan wise we are in good shape now. Omni is concentrating on nork, mars/omni are working on a new tutorial, i'm trying to round out the long list of bugs/wierd features that have accumulated, and then in the more near term i'm looking into adding a few more of the SDC areas.

Also, i'm poking around at more internet advertising sources other than google and yahoo, but it may not be worth it until the new tutorial is up.

Thanks,
Brad

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GenRalph
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by GenRalph » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:00 am

I would like to first state that most of what i have to say has already been said but its important for everyone to voice their thoughts in this thread so Brad as a good feel for what the WHOLE player base is thinking.

The reason i pay to play drak is to have fun. It is probably safe for me to presume that most of the rest of our community is here for the same reason. That being so it appears there are differing oppinions of what "Fun" is.

Is it rewarding and stimulating to grow your first crit the way the game was designed? For me Yes! However, some find it more stimulating to pay to play a game and max their crits as quickly as possible. Neither of the schools of thought is wrong. Both will pay to play, yet some will explore for years never reaching end game while some will reach it very quickly, possibly getting bored and leaving.

I dont see why Brad should need to spend valuable time putting in "fixes" simply because one persons definition of enjoyable is different from anothers. If a person or persons want to pay to powerlevel and they are not negatively affecting other players by doing so then why worry about them and why spend already strained resources trying to police them. They are most likely not the type of player that would stay anyway. <edit> As a point of reference i am not a fan of the LOS sub-routine. It may somewhat stop the activity you were targeting but it has a negative impact on regular party hunting. The suggestion of a routine that spreads exp and skill based upon each crits contritbution sounds like a more ballanced fix.

Brad, to address your medium range direction, SDC +1 and +2, as well as orc -1 and -2 are still a bit overpowered for the available gear and buffs. Very difficult for any but a thief to hunt them effectively. I like a good challenge, so im hoping your next round of additions there include some alternatives for the non-thief classes.

Long range i put my vote on first getting a smooth, relatively complete beginning tutorial. This will give you good bang for your buck by helping engage some of the new players. I liked your thoughts of adding a quester npc who walks a player through some of the basic tasks and then rewards them with some relatively nice starter gear items or possibly a skill lvl or experience. The rewards would only be awarded once but the player could revisit the npc to review if they forgot how to do something.

The early scenarios (nork, aleria, cob) have years of content so any attention here should be spent on spontanious events to help further engage the newer players. You could even do one where to get the reward the players have to join a party and each member has to complete a task or find and turn in an item while in the party. Take it a step further and make the quest with a lvl cap like volton. These will encourage new players to meet others near their own size and acomplish something without an uber crit in their party. Plus some of my fondest memories when i started were the random sysop events. They were alot of "FUN" which made me want to dig deeper into the game.

I do hope this helps in someway
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Pancho
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Pancho » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:55 pm

Brad wrote:RE: Thread direction.
...
...
So, game direction medium/long term is the real question here.

Brad
Anything planned for brewing?

-Pancho

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:05 am

GenRalph Right on words spoke to me.. That is what i am trying to say.. Nice one GR
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