Player Discussion Thread

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Mars
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Player Discussion Thread

Post by Mars » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:17 am

OK, I will admit I probably posted this thread too early (before I had a chance to add the questions.

So I created a new thread for Question Discussion and renamed this on Player Discussion.

Martialarts
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:47 am

I am going to lay down what I think is important to me.. If it is not live then there can be no honest chat with back and forth action.. Need to have a real talk about things people find important.

No one I know of is trying to be mean just tired of all the stories and those who cant get it straight or correct. ( like me)

Many questions arise like when can we expect 80/40 to be implemented How soon will there be new content.

To be honest I stated many things once I made the levels I needed I miss spoke more to see more to do. SDC was made for thiefs ao crule.

On the other hand GDH SDC BDC are still harder then most and thief’s can make it just fine. But the wyverns are impossible even with a group of 5 tried it with all 78/39 MA Healer Barb Mentalist Paladin Fighter Mentalist. They die pretty much yet a thief can solo area. The area down under the tanner’s area in SDC same thing. So not in reality a party thing but thief‘s thing. Brad you stated you wanted more people to be in parties well pretty much anyways..

All those are just ramblings of an old man who has been here for a bit of time. I want a real discussion so I can see answers maybe then I don’t have to ask questions. ( like I’m not going to open my mouth yeah right) I see a lot of frustration more over true concern From the long hard effort put into growing a critter and helping others grow. This is leading to real issues about non service and or poor service.

I have gone way off topic and I apologies I’m not smart but I know what I want FUN its now to much like work I guess not so fun but interesting still. Excuse my ramblings. Not sure what I am thinking here knee jerk response updated Graphics maybe more content some tweaking and finishing content and area’s . bottom line is some sort of real expatiations. I am about to leave the game unless I get some real answers this game from norl to nl needs attention things have to change.
Last edited by Martialarts on Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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uebersoldat
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by uebersoldat » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:52 am

As a casual Drakkar player here (but a paying one) I'd like to voice a few of my concerns aside from the obvious Java Drakkar that is on everyones mind:

- Will there be more middle-ground content? Aleria and Nork need some loving. (IMHO focusing on endgame only will alienate the majority of the potential players as well as casual players such as myself, it's not all about endgame folks)

- Further, someone brought up before in another thread that the newbie zones need reworking. I agree, tiles are good but I think the experience could be better for newbies poking their heads around in the world for the first time. There could potentially be very constructive discussion regarding this.

- Unfinished areas, will they ever see the light of day? For example, why can I climb up in certain areas around Nork to find absolutely nothing up there? This may go in line with my first question.

- For any of these projects, will there be a solid commitment and routine updates as to the status? There has been a lack of such a thing lately.

- Megalairs and new events? PLEASE this is a must to keep things interesting. (Hint, there is a giant stone Dragon sitting in Undead City 1, why not bring her to life to turn some high level crits' heads? Perhaps even humble a few <VEG>)

I know my guild will have more to add, but there are players out there that play to enjoy the game and experience the content, not rush at blinding speeds to get to level 8,450 for crying in the mud. But what we have to enjoy is extremely dated and never changes. If you focus too much on endgame you will please a distinct minority (even though most have multiple paying accounts) but will alienate a good many other folks just wanting a dynamic world to poke around in.

Hope I don't upset the Gods of Drakkar who are running around at level 12,450. Lord knows some of you gents are very helpful and knowledgeable and I don't want to incur any wraths here...HH.

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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Cobra » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:16 pm

In response to Martialarts, unless AA has been changed, there's a very easy way to do it with relative safety. It's a lair so you don't want it cake where there is no threat of getting ate. Even eats anymore are kind of moot, only takes 10 mins to get everything back.

I stopped playing because SDC was supposed to be geared towards solo play, and it's still just like GDH and BDC. Need a group to do anything, and end game is running out of players, so getting said groups is even harder. For the endgame content, at least at this point, make it solo oriented to get people playing again. If it ever gets back to where it was when NL was released, then you can gear newer areas for groups.

In reponse to uebersoldat, I agree totally about the nork/aleria areas of the game, and have posted before ideas for revamping them. At this point, the game has to either attract new people, or bring back a lot of the oldies.

Nork could use a re-work, maybe do something with KM to get people in there at lvl 15 or 16. The first three floors are basically dead space, and 4-5 aren't hunted anymore except for roots on 5. I think nork starter areas are good, n 1-7, maybe re-work 8 or something, or tie in km areas after 7. Something so people can follow a pretty good definated path to grow, and see different things along the way. The change from n6 to aleria is great, but aleria stops being fun when all you do is aoe for xp there to get to cob. This is where a re-worked KM would come in, around 15 or 16, change from aleria to KM, with the minos and rats, or something totally new, maybe toss denabas and nagas on a floor so that people are killing different things when they get here, not just trolls, ogres, npcs, and minos.

I assume with the way MMOs have been going lately, that newer players will want to see lvls and skills at a faster rate than what the original drakkar had to offer, so possibly increasing the gains would be something to think on as well.

Cobra

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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Valora » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:43 pm

Echo what ubersoldat said and also much of what Cobra said.

The endgamers are important, no doubt about it, but they are not the heart, soul, and very life of Drakkar. This lies with attracting newcomers, and you attract newcomers by making the low level areas of the game enticing to them. Ignoring them just makes them go away, with the result that the number of active players is dwindling by the day. Big PCs, players running multiple accounts of big PCs, do not equal a big player base.

One day the whole thing is apt to implode.

Keep in mind also that with the endgamers, once they have "won" Drakkar, they will, most likely, leave. I have personally known more than one who have stated this to me in private. So, after they leave, then what will we have? A game that is geared to level 9500 (nobody smaller need apply) is not going to be attractive to somebody who may be one of the beginners some people like to sneer at, but this is so short-sighted I can hardly believe it.

Beginners are where it's at, folks. I, for one, enjoy helping beginners--which does NOT mean loading them down with gear much too high-level for them, so they don't learn anything about the game other than hack, slash, burn, grab.

Our Guild has made a conscious decision NOT to indulge in power-leveling for just this reason. If it takes five or six of us to handle a lair or a quest that one of the level 9500's can do solo, while mostly asleep, then so be it. Bet we have more fun. Yes, doing something solo can be--and is--bags and bushels of entertainment, but so is being in a good, cooperative party.

This self-destructive paradigm is not something that anybody on the other side of the counter--i.e., writers, designers, etc.--set out to do. It is one of those phenomena that more or less spontaneously arise, and which then feed on themselves until they eat themselves all up.

Do I want to see Drakkar go this way? In case anybody was in any doubt, NO, I do not.

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Merlin
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Merlin » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:03 pm

In relation to Top level lairs, I don't think its fair to assume they are too difficult/over powering if any group of players have successfully completed the encounter. When lairs/quests/encounters are changed after they have been completed this is a huge insult to all those players who worked hard and suffered the losses figuring things out the first time around. Sometimes its good to have items that no-one else in the game has because you actually earned things.

One of the main things that I think Drakkar is missing is communication between the player base and the developer(s), I mean for example there are many threads that go un-answered on the forums, and plenty of emails that don't get a reply.

Wyverns weren't really a problem for me, but I can see why the area needs to be changed, even if some basic annoyances were removed like the Fall to Bog, I mean what's that about? falling to a different scenario?

Either the lightening damage needs to be scales correctly OR items need to be added into the game that would give the correct resistances.

Towards the higher end of the game I have noticed that less and less items drop, for example, the infamous Wisp robe, this item was dropping at first and then rightly stopped because of a bug with he AC value as it was deemed too high. Why could this robe not just provide lightening protection and a few + stats?

Seriously we have all these cool items in the game which don't drop? why not? they don't have to be mega powerful but just providing some variety of items for platers to use so not everyone is stood wearing exactly the same thing all the time.

Elites Moonshields - this could be a mid range shield
Wisp robe - As above this could be a solution to a hard area
Banditkin Halberds - Why cant this be similar to how Cob store bought overrule nork top end?
Medusa SS - A cool item that could drop but doesn't
NL Mama Scales - as above.
Amoral LS - every now and then have one spawn with a beefed up LS slightly less powerfull than a killer LS, this already happens in Aleria seldari dungeon with the GS's why cant it happen here?

Players like seeing new items. I can understand if it was a graphics restriction ie. lack of which made you re-use a load of old graphics instead of adding new ones, but why didn't this stuff drop?

This is one huge difference between other scenarios, there is very little in nork/cob/aleria that is not dropped/tanned on kill, NL is lacking in this department.

Mega Lairs - When the scaling is right who doesnt like these? Mega Wardens, pax event and went smooth, I enjoyed it and everyone else who attended enjoyed it too. I know Omni has hosted some event/lairs which people enjoyed, but he cant be around all the time. Can we not have something on a random timer like the Bruce in Fisheries or the Raid on aleria? I'd love to see Albron and his RiftTitans invading borderlands with the Terrors and Intestionoids, throw in a few special drops and everyone's a winner.

The new player base definitely needs some assistance because they come, don't understand it, cant find a fan site then they leave.

Maybe to get the hook in sooner take Cobra's proposal and maybe increase gains to level 15 or something?

Pricing, I know you cant get better than free but, its your income and this is my suggestion, $50 for Nameless - ok steep, but then for gold + 1ugh $17.45 ($209 anually + one off $50 = 259) I'd like to see something more structured to get everything for all the crits because 42 dollars ish for everything is kinda expensive!

The new graphics, Darge is an excellent artist clearly and was willing to produce a multitude of graphics, get this stuff into the game. bottom middle top it doesn't matter, any development is better than none.

As if you dont have enough development to do please can we have a playerbase API for custom apps such as pulling all locker content/stats/exp/hp/ep/age etc.. Once an API is in place then the development can be done by the players using function calls you have permitted and its safe and your not handing over the reigns to anyone.

PLEASE take on more developers, I know you don't have the time to do alot of work yourself but even if you could take someone who could build a content development system integrated with drakkar then the content creation would be easier, sysops complain about the map editor they use, well make a new one that works. The right tools for the job makes stuff easier.

New MapBuilder, New ItemBuilder, NewLairBuilder. a free to air MapBuilder for the players to use, I was working on one in php using all the floor tiles from the drak graphics but real life got in the way, and without knowing what format stuff is in they were no more than just pretty pictures.

Well that's my idea's suggestions of things that I think should be included or investigated. I'm sure I'll add more.

thanks for reading.
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Migam
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Migam » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:18 pm

Another issue to consider... if SDH is made to be truly solo play (ie: easier), more large parties will descend upon SDH to easily exp/skill far faster than they already are. The cry for more areas, higher levels of exp and skill will just come that much sooner. It's already 10m per crit for the wandering NPCS and their hp (about 100k) are less than even M16 macers so short work for a party of 10.

How to balance this? How about someone come up with a viable solution to that? No one wants to see that, blind to the greed of roundtheclock, mob gains to slam into the wall of endgame and whine for more.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not skilling my pally cause I don't have all that high-end GDH2 gear and primalstun/2k hits being the norm isn't much fun (yet I can hunt down to m25). Instead my thief is growing nice and safe but for what? To forever hunt solo?

I'd even take a large cut in skill gains to plug away in Mormar, GDH but Brad is not willing to allow sk35+ gains there.

Should party exp and skill be cut so that partied works out to maybe only double solo gains? (party gain = solo gain *2 / party size * whatever nerf factor for being too small). Many will cry NO because they need to be 78/39/39/39/etc/etc/etc.

Should SDH be easier to survive, less crit hp and just give much less exp/skill/loot value as was done in BDH? That way solo can hunt but parties can't superlevel to the extent now happening.

Maybe a special area for solo play only that does not allow party formation. If 2 decide to hunt together, they can try to make sure not just 1 person is getting the kills. Maybe give those crits some susceptibility to various attacks so the ment or healer isn't going through 3 roots to get one kill. Something that allows each class to shake off the "support role" and actually kill.

Maybe dumb ideas, but oh well... not every answer can be "I'll give you a way to max out in a jiff!!"

Like it or not, the problem chiefly lies in the mentality of having an army grow you, being gifted everything and not even know how to find the GoblinKing.

Players don't want balance but that's what is needed.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
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dhavin
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by dhavin » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:26 pm

My two sense:

I've played the game on and off for several years, and I find the only reason I play with any consistency now, is due to a handful of players who have stuck it out for the same length of time or longer. I enjoy their company, and I also enjoy helping new people with the game. I do it probably for the same reasons I imagine most newbie helpers do it; I like seeing someone get hooked on the game, to experience the fun that I did when I first started. Right now, these are really the only two reasons I continue to play the game.

When I look at my characters, and it doesn't matter which they are, I see a series of lengthy treadmill sessions ahead of each of them, whether it's for skill or experience or items. Somewhat surprisingly, many of the new people I help out (at least those who I think are new) say similar things when they eventually throw in the towel and though I wish they wouldn't, I can't help but sympathize.

How do we fix this? For one, let's look at new players. Yes, they do need to be drawn into the game, I think that running around reading placards is all well and good, but it's ridiculously boring. It's almost like being handed a loaded BB gun on Christmas day, but being forced to read the manual for the whole day, before running outside to plink cans with it. Revamp it; get them arriving on a Nork shoreline from some distant land, shipwrecked or otherwise. Have them fight their way through a small quest, directed by NPCs or narration, to finally stumble upon Nork town and civilization. Reward them with an item or two along the way.

I see another huge problem with the game, and that's communication. Almost no one speaks in game anymore, except the new players. Often, the old players are so wrapped up in IRC that they miss all of these new people either asking for help, advice or simply saying hi. Personally, if I'm politely trying to engage someone in conversation and they walk off without even so much as a "Howdy!" I feel like they're pretentiously ignoring me.. and I certain do not want to play a game where it looks like, largely, a group of sixty people run around quietly engaged in their own little solo missions. It's an icy, and unfriendly environment. I think a good fix for this would be to award experience and skill for in game chatter. All character levels, and scaled by experience level of the player. Add random bonus awards for colourful (there's my Canadian slipping out) language like thee, thou, art a fool. These awards don't have to be large, but consistent so that there's an enticement to engage in roleplay.

I would love to see some small quests that bring players together, such as bounties paid on monsters, rewards commensurate with the level of player and toughness of the monster. Have parties assigned a monster to take down, not necessarily a lair, with special experience and skill bonuses up to a certain level.

I've also seen a lot of people quit in the skill level 10+ range because of rote and boredom. One thing that might help, is removing the skill caps that exist on levels 1 - 20, or potentially remove them if the player is in a party to encourage party play. Let little players get good a little faster.

Finally, reward bigger players for helping little players. If Drakkar is to prosper, realistically, we need to increase the player base. A static or shrinking player base is a recipe for failure. Have a mentor ship program for people who have been playing a long time, that makes it very easy for new players to request a mentor and open up a line of communication between the new person and the mentor. I think fewer people would leave the game early on, if they had a helping hand. Rewards could be simply gaining quirks at an advanced rate for mentors partied with new players (who aren't coming from the same IP address etc).

I do agree that Nork and Aleria really need a partial overhaul. More interactive quests with bonuses scaled toward the players and party size, and I think something fun could be done with encrusting, like having gems do funky things to different pieces of equipment. A ruby that gives a +3 skill boost to swords, a pearl that adds water breathing to a piece of equipment.

So, this is a bit of a ramble as well and I'll cut it off here.

Cheers,

D

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Tirith
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Tirith » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:43 pm

I agree with you Migam.. I'd like to see exp/skill gains balanced.. it seems players grow too quickly these days and they are surpassing most areas of gameplay. I remember growing my ment.. I went from area to the next area and then to next area.. Mormar was much too hard for any player besides a parried pally to have many crits on him.. so mass killing in mormar wasnt possible.. With new gear + quirks.. The area has gotten so easy to the point that players of the correct size can stand in a zoo and live.. this was not possible early on and has vastly changed how players level from 50 to 75+.

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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by xaph » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:53 pm

I'm not a high-end player so I wont say anything about end game but I do have a couple cents to share about the rest.

The idea of expanding the sysop program is a good suggestion. In the past month, I have only seen Mars and Omni online. I don't doubt that the others are about also and I doubt our timezones agree but I can appreciate other players' concerns about the admin support. Real life is obviously the priority but it's also true that we don't hear very much from the sysops in general. The work they do is definitely appreciated but I do think us players are sometimes left out of the loop as to what it is they are actually doing.

I certainly don't agree with Drakkar being called a "dead game" but it does seems that there are more players leaving than new players joining in recent times. I do wonder how Drakkar is advertised? Would it be worthwhile having sponsored links on various websites and search engines? I wont claim any knowledge on that subject but I'm sure someone will be able to expand on this point. In any case, it would be lovely to find some way of getting a few fresh faces into the game.

In terms of development, I personally would love to see a few more quests and puzzles thrown into the game. I love the old quests in Nork and Aleria. The ratburrow quests, goblinlord, lizardking etc were so entertaining when I first joined and they really get you to "know the game". And they're fun too! I'm still puzzling over the mausoleum quest! :) I know the majority of the player base are more concerned with new areas, levels and skills so likely those are the things to focus on but I do think sometimes people skip by the smaller details in a rush and don't get appreciate the hidden jewels the game has to offer. This is perhaps more of an opinion than a suggestion but thought I'd throw it in there.

Events are loved by everyone. The scheduled ones each year are always good fun but the random ones thrown in throughout the year always add some new flavour. Omni and Tigger especially have been fantastic with these but they don't seem to happen any more. (Unless I've been offline at the wrong times!)

I'm sure I'll think of a few more things before the night is out but that's it for now. I hope this thread and the forth-coming sysop-players discussions have the impact they deserve. Great to see this happening.

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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Tee » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:43 pm

As we all know the game has it ups and downs, and if nothing is done it will keep going down hill. I know older players stuck to this game because of the friendly environment and the people they met here. Well lately it seems that people have lost there reasons for staying and the good environment just isn’t enough to keep people at drakkar. So hopefully some of the suggestions that the players make will be put into a effect:

1.)I would love to see quest’s mean more in the game. Now a day’s people really don’t take time to fully explore nork, aleria, and cob. Most of the new players are power leveled up so they can go straight to nameless land or cob just to sit in UD or Mormar. Then lose interest in the game. So I think to get to the next place’s, you should have to complete a quest (like mormar rings). So say you are in nork -1 and you want to get to nork-2, you would have to complete nork-1’s quest (Goblin lord). To get from n-2 to n-3 after you need to do the lizard kings quest. Then so forth for each of the levels of nork. Since there is a type of quest or lair on each level pretty much every level of nork let’s make them actually mean something. Instead of people forgetting about them.

2.)Aleria: This area is just a road bump in the game right now. It’s a fast and easy way to get skill and exp before you get to cob and to get cool unique rare items. I would love to see more added to this area, and maybe place’s in Aleria for larger players to play but with the same aspects of the old. With new rare’s that you could use when you are a larger player. I personally love the look of the dread, but you won’t see me running into places in nl+ with it because it’s not sensible when there is the much better killer.

3.)As other said pricing for the game. There should be a plan that allows you to have gold and all ugh for your characters without being 40 dollars. Seeing how the high end games now days allow you all the features for around 15 dollars. I figure if drakkar is more cost friendly, more people will play again and join.

4.)I LOVE dhavin’s idea for encrusting. It would be nice to actually have it useful instead of just sorting out my +stat rings when my char’s were smaller.

5.)Mega lairs, events, etc. I loved how omni was revamping the holiday events, he/she was doing a amazing job with it, and would love to see more of that. But for mega lairs as much as I liked doing them, I never much cared for the reward basis. A select few would get the goodies well so many others helped and lost so much stats. Maybe make a more group friendly type of mega lair where everyone got something of worth out of it. It would make more people want to participate and get excited about them. Also I know they have tried: who had the largest amount of damage to the baddy before but how is a pally to beat a barb or even a healer to compete at all in that. Also Tigger used to have the little mind. puzzle event’s more of those would be amusing and fun.

6.)New quests, there fun to figure out and do. I know many of had fun trying to figure out the so famous mausoleum quest, why not put things in the game that deal with that. Or make the scrolls have real purpose.

7.)I wouldn’t mind expanding the sysop program, and extra help.

8.)For high end game, I love that it is somewhat group friendly, but it would be nice to if you could kill things by yourself. Since as we all know there isn’t many people online now a days and hard to progress by yourself in some area’s

9.)And as always new area’s at high end would be lovely. But don’t forget about the other area’s

Sorry i know this is long and just alot of rambles. But i really do wan't to see more to the game besides just powerleveling. Then losing interest a few months later. :(

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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Cobra » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:55 pm

Migam wrote:Another issue to consider... if SDH is made to be truly solo play (ie: easier), more large parties will descend upon SDH to easily exp/skill far faster than they already are. The cry for more areas, higher levels of exp and skill will just come that much sooner. How to balance this? How about someone come up with a viable solution to that? No one wants to see that, blind to the greed of roundtheclock, mob gains to slam into the wall of endgame and whine for more.

Maybe give those crits some susceptibility to various attacks so the ment or healer isn't going through 3 roots to get one kill. Something that allows each class to shake off the "support role" and actually kill.

Personally, I think common sense will have to come in somewhere for people that powerlevel through content. Of course one will hit the wall with nothing to do because that's all that person cared about, getting to the end. At some point players have to step back and think about what they're doing. Should one race to the end of this scenario as fast as one can, just to wait for the next area to race through? Or should one enjoy it and grow at the same time? I think making an area exceptionally hard simply because some people have more time than others is a little wierd. Make it so all can enjoy, and the people with extra time simply get through it faster, but all should eventually be able to make it through.

On the 2nd point, this has been the issue since NL came out, certain classes suck at killing with the advent of tiers. I proposed a move back to discs in the past and beef them up so that healers and ments can kill without going through roots like crazy. Give healers a buffed psicrush type disc, so they can go back to killing things solo like they could up to 50/30 in cob. I would suggest discs for ments as well, I've never been a fan of tiers, ments are incredibly boring with tiers, mash 3 buttons, then wait 2 rounds to do it again. What's wrong with adding new discs to these classes that can be cast every round and do tier like damage? Needs to be balanced so that classes kill roughly around the same speed like in nork and aleria.

I agree with Tee about aleria being fun and exciting with random rares that drop from anything. For later content, add upgraded pots, or something like mj luck pots that give paid skill. Some nice randon thing that drops every once in a while that helps break up the constant killing, where you get that feeling of anticipation everything time you search a pile.

Also with aleria being a bump, unfortunately that's the way most areas are once new areas are released, but revamping would help out a lot. Aleria is a great change of pace from the npcs of n5 and n6.

Cobra

tekcap
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by tekcap » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:47 pm

The idea of revamping the newbie area is definately a priority! The complete revamp with a sort of newbie island which was suggested sounds perfect. New players come to the game and don't understand anything, its horrible to be a newbie in Drakkar. A new player should be able to understand what he needs to do when he starts the game.

The website needs a complete overhaul. Its horrible and there are all kinds of dead links, imagine what a new player thinks! Make a guide for beginners on the website so people can read it and look forward to playing. List all the features that Drakkar has to offer! This game has raids, guilds and everything else that a new mmorpg has (except graphics). I can guarentee you that new players probably thinks this game has none of that stuff. There is way to much secrecy revolved around things!

This game is a sleeper, you look at it and it doesn't seem very impressive but once you finally understand it you realize it has great potential. It shouldn't be hard for a person to find out what makes this game good and how to play it.

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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:57 pm

To many off topic well at least im not alone i see clicking :twisted:

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Darge
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Darge » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:04 pm

The 3 fundamental problems with modern Drakkar that I had:

1) Content Development- One programmer won't cut it if this game is to ever come back to a respectable subscription rate. Ideally you have 2 full or part time programmers who are the equivalent of Omni and Pax, one focused on new content for all levels, one making serious top end content. Even then, there's no hook to keep players going once they've finished with the current top end. No development team is a recipe for disaster, and I've grown tired of empty and unfulfilled promises in this game to the point that I'll never pay to play again.

2) Pricing- The game isn't even worth 5 dollars to me anymore, let alone 17.50. How do you pay for additional programmers with such low subscription rates; how do you increase subscription rates with such relatively high prices? Because let's be honest, quirks are such game changers, not paying the full 17.50 bucks a month is just making things rough on yourself, and that's the only long lasting reason to subscribe to gold/ugh.

3) Content Pacing- It works for other online games to have content blown through because development time is measured in months or weeks and top end pacing is usually regulated by things like dungeon lockouts. People should have never been able to ignore the majority of Cobrahn, NL should have never have had such relatively overpowered items for Cobrahn level players, and Aleria and Nork should never have fallen to the wayside. There is a decent sized amount of content to this game, 95% of which is irrelevant and unimportant now.
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Re: Discussion Thread

Post by Migam » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:55 pm

Yeah,right off the bat, this started off offtopic and I didn't realize there was a question posted by Mars til I went back to the top. I reacted to the few posts right after... great.

1) Expansion of sysop program is long overdue. There have been too many excesses in DZ that make it seem more like Yahoo chat and though these kids (and elders who should know better than to cater to these children) like to emphasize sex, racism, drugs, drinking, disrespect in general, I stopped chastising them and just report to worst to Mars. I did say to consider me the Drak narc... listen next time. I recall a much better community when I started playing and no one will step up and point out bad manners.
Mars is one person and Omni has been away alot but even 2 aren't enough to cover all the shifts. If Omni is one of the proposed developers who are distracted by sysop duties (from question#2), that's another sysop position to fill.
The obvious issues re: ingame are how much information is available to a sysop gamewise such as undiscovered content or methods as they walk through walls and can observe tactics while hidden. There can be the temptation to suddenly find these areas or solutions on your player account in the near future for themselves or guild. I'm sure Mars will have logs generated to watch the watchers and they better be aware of that.

2) There should be recruitment on developer help for new content but finding free help will be a challenge especially if said developer is an active player who has to give that up alot to advance the game. I overloaded Brad with ideas, a few bizarre to the point that he seemed intrigued but wanted to get SDH out. Some would require radical tactics to succeed and some suggestions like a living animal implant for that last unused equipment slot (owl for IV, another for added psi-resist, some alien) that can be purchased in shops or from an NPC requiring great effort. At this point, I'm not sure he recalls those emails or has it; heck, I'm not sure how deep I'd have to search my Sent folder but I'm not a developer and haven't programmed since college (back when punchcards were on the way out) so all I can offer are ideas. An earlier post mentioned the need for active ongoing development to keep ahead and I have to concede that point... but only where the new content takes months to finish, not a bumrush to get it done in 2 weeks. If you finish it too soon, you wait. Once content is released, new content should be released anywhere from every 4 to 6 months.

Hopefully, all these OT posts can be moved elsewhere, I copied my own. They distract from the original intent and many, like me, only read the last few OT and didn't realize.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
---Pathfinder

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Teh_Cheat » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:44 pm

Weekly/Monthly progression updates from developers, and a better attempt at keeping up with problems/questions posted on the forums or sent by email would be a very nice addition.

When it comes to gameplay, the answer is simple and is already in the KoD. Aleria is a wonderful scenario that has the best that KoD has to offer. It has a variety of enviorments, secrets, lair crits, and a story line that wraps a great deal of them all together. When I think of Aleria, I think of Tarak's floating castle that requires a potion that makes one's character float to the front door, secret trap doors that will lead you to a Thieves Guild or through an empty barrel at the bottom of the Duke's stairs, raids from the minions of the Goblin King that assault Carenna and can actually kill the citizens and destroy the walls of the city, choosing whether to work for the Duke or Lord Koss and embarking on an epic quest that takes you through the entire scenario.

Where else in any of the scenarios in KoD is there a rushing stream of water in a cave that spits you back out in the ocean on the northern side of the continent? Or a chance for several balanced, but very good weapons and items with unique graphics that work as a top tier slot item AND as a trophy that isn't attainable by grinding, but by luck? What about quests that interact with each other or that make up a longer string of a questline?

If memory serves me right it was Finri who developed this scenario, and he did a brilliant job. If you want to change entry and middle tiered areas, look to how Aleria is set up. Develop a storyline that is easily followed and not put together through storylines on webpages that have been deleted. The same goes for end-game content. I loved playing NL and the entire GDH (GDH, GDH2, BDC, and SDC) and I couldn't wait to finish SDC, and move onto the BroodMother, but a major problem with both scenarios was storyline. If you missed flisk posing as Graine and doing live events in character, then you have no clue why Graine had a faction or why he even shows up when you kill Arcturus. Most people have no clue who Arcturus is because they didn't read the random thread that was stickied in the NL forum. The NL quests didn't give you a feel of a real storyline or that Mormar was actually a research labratory where things went horribly wrong. When people do the primal quest today, I doubt they actually read through the scrolls for the storyline, but just give Lord Breshard his akronium brick and go on their way so they can become primal. It's difficult putting together all these random bits of information that are placed all around the Borderlands and the Decaying lands. The story is all there, but not properly put into play.

Pricing is also a major problem. I currently have my subscription on silver, and I will never move if to anything else it there isn't a better reason. Scenarios need to be built and executed properly. If you're going to release have a scenario with a couple of quests and teasers and then come back to work on it a year later, nobody is going to stick around.

Now that I've gotten my brick wall of my feelings toward the game, I'll quickly sum it up.

1 - Better discussion.

2 - More interactive questlines and scenarios. Story is important, don't hide it.

3 - Lower the prices for what the game is worth in 2010. (I'll pay 10-20 a month for full UGH/Gold for all characters, but I know some people would prefer lower.)


John
Last edited by Teh_Cheat on Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Teh_Cheat » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:04 am

Also on a seperate note - System Operators.

Maybe it's time we redeveloped this position. There is no reason why every SysOp needs to have the exact same level of authority and ability. Break them down into tiers. Obviously Mars is a SysOp who should have complete control of everything ranging from in game authority to working the lobby. He handles payment difficulty, and I'm sure he's a major reason why Brad is giving some of his attention back to the game. He's been a mainstay with the KoD, and has always been fair as long as I can remember.

Assign new SysOps to different areas, and not just giving complete control to a stranger. Omni has been the perfect example of what a SysOp should be, but for every SysOp like Omni, there will be a Lore, someone who will come in and use the game to their advantage whether it be for information or helping out one's guild/crit.

If we need someone to monitor the lobby, then give someone control over the lobby. Make them apply and give them a try on a probationary period. If we need someone to help monitor game activity, then give them control over Nork, Aleria, and Cobrahn. Nameless Land and GDH can be handled by a SysOp with higher powers and a lower tiered SysOp can always consult a higher tiered SysOp later if the problem is happening while one is not on. I know programming will have to be done to make this happen, but it'd be for the best. Not every SysOp should be able to duplicate items and walk through walls. Limit it to certain scenarios or certain items that can be used by a SysOp. In the end, at least a report of wrong doing is being taken care of whether it be at that moment by a SysOp that is equipped to handle it, or later that day when an active higher tiered SysOp finds time to take action himself. Also, if a SysOp becomes inactive, remove them and let them reapply to become a SysOp again. We all love old SysOps, but they serve no purpose than to randomly pop on and say hello.

When it comes to random or planned SysOp events, make it where they must be approved by Mars or someone with an authority to monitor and preview what is being given out. This ensures rare items like Blue Full plate from becoming over populated. Mars set a very good example when he gave out two brooms. Tigger held "find and catch me" events and the pool of winners were able to solve a riddle and win themselves a broom. He hasn't given out a broom since and it hasn't been talked about ensuring that the item stays rare and everyone had a fair shot at it. (This is just pertaining SysOp events, not Holiday events where everyone should win an item.)

Just my take on what management of KoD should look like.
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Quaternion » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:49 am

There are many great suggestions within this for the ways in which Drakkar game content should be altered and developed, however such vast overhaul and redesign no doubt would take more work and time than Brad, Omni and Tnem (should java drak take off again) can commit.

So while game content is important issue I think a more important one, as some have mentioned, is the games business model. I would like to see this change so that professional programmers were brought in with conjunction with advertising. Admittedly in the short term this would be expensive but could in the long term revitalize Drakkar. More development and advertisement creates more funds, more funds means more development and more development means more players etc. In this way with initial investment a cycle of prosperity is created. Drakkar is a great game which and I think if developed correctly could expand beyond its current niche market. If however the current model doesn't change, unfortunately all I can see happening is Drakkar continuing on its trajectory towards death.



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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:06 am

Teh_Cheat wrote:When it comes to gameplay, the answer is simple and is already in the KoD. Aleria is a wonderful scenario that has the best that KoD has to offer. It has a variety of enviorments, secrets, lair crits, and a story line that wraps a great deal of them all together. When I think of Aleria, I think of Tarak's floating castle that requires a potion that makes one's character float to the front door, secret trap doors that will lead you to a Thieves Guild or through an empty barrel at the bottom of the Duke's stairs, raids from the minions of the Goblin King that assault Carenna and can actually kill the citizens and destroy the walls of the city, choosing whether to work for the Duke or Lord Koss and embarking on an epic quest that takes you through the entire scenario.

Where else in any of the scenarios in KoD is there a rushing stream of water in a cave that spits you back out in the ocean on the northern side of the continent? Or a chance for several balanced, but very good weapons and items with unique graphics that work as a top tier slot item AND as a trophy that isn't attainable by grinding, but by luck? What about quests that interact with each other or that make up a longer string of a questline?
I totaly agree here I found Aleria's Story line totaly fun and made me want to explore it more and more..


Helping new players how to learn while teaching them ways of playing and showing them how to discover new areas and playing safe is not bad. Some say its not proper to help tell me when u made it by solo playing.. Lets not forget how you got to were u are.

Quaternion always great insite i can not wait for the discussion. good luck to all who are and have passion for KoD.

No finger pointing here on my part at all.
Last edited by Martialarts on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Stormwind » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am

It's been a while since I've been around - but this game has always meant a lot to me. Mars or Omni, please forward the minutes of the conference and any summary of the discussion threads out to your distro list plz? Thank you in advance. I won't be able to make it due to work.

There are a lot of things that need to be addressed. For long term game health, I think you may need to look bottom-up.

Starting Area:
Players nowadays are different from 10 years ago, never mind 20+ years ago when the game was first built. The starting area has to take a new player firmly by the hand and lead them through every step. The best way is probably through a starting quest series that would lead players through a training program to teach them the fundamentals instead of having them a bunch of tiles on the floor. Most online players nowadays would probably not realize the significance of the scroll as it relates to KoD game play. Players have mentioned a re-work of Nork-Aleria, maybe you can update the NPC's already there with the new NPC interface from SDC? It is more user friendly and will lead new players through the text/response sequences instead of the older method where you have to sometimes guess what to tell NPC's. If you really want to retain more players up-front, sorry but you have to dumb it down so that they might stick around long enough to become a paying customer.

Some ideas for 'mini-quests':
Get players to find the healer, set a restore point.
Have them find where the tanner is.
Teach them where to find the apothecary that sells reasonably priced potions for the beginning player.
Have them retrieve the various helpful scrolls (succor, respirate) that are so necessary to the beginning player.
Teach them what some of the more valuable items are to scoop up in dungeons so they think about values of items a bit more. They will feel more successful with more loot to show for their efforts.
Give small XP/Skill rewards for quest completion. This might help new players advance at a measured pace and let you guide players to level/skill appropriate areas.
Tell players how to talk to some of the older, odder npc's in the game to give them some ideas on how to interact with older content.

Quest Rewards:
Rewards should help futher the future quests in the series, to build on the knowledge gained (you fetched a respirate scroll - next quest requires you use one). They should also improve the survivability of the beginnng player. Give rewards such as the various stat potions, maybe you can make 'mini' stat potions that raises stats up to 15 so as not to reduce the value of the real, random stat potions.

Referral Program
Once you have established the landing zone for new players, you need to get the new players in. Advertising has its place here - but Drakkar also has a userbase who most likely play other, similar games in this genre. That means they communicate with other players who may potentially want to play Drakkar. Harness the userbase here and make them work for you. There had been endless talk years ago about a rewards program or referral program - get it in place and working.
If a new account signs up to KoD and becomes a paying account, the referred account should accrue some points for every month that accounts remains a paying account. This I think accomplishes 2 goals - you get new blood in and you encourage the referral to keep helping and guiding that new account because there is a living benfit to themselves to do so.
These points can be applied towards unique items that CANNOT be gotten except through the referral program. Most of the items in the Referral program should be tied - only the purchaser can get them. A select few should be untied. This gives the hard working, popular or inventive players the possibility of being able to further benefit by selling these very hard to get items to other players in the game who may not have the time or inclination to recruit. Keep in mind, the focus is on rewarding the recruiter - don't get lost in the 'but they didn't recuit why should they benefit arguement'. Life isn't fair, get over it and move on.

Content Development:
I agree with previous comments. You need at least one content developer working on existing scenarios and one of the things they need to fix is what Darge mentioned about some segments of the game being irrelevant for character advancement. You cannot go to Cobrahn until you are level 18 right? Why the heck are any size players going to Nameless?! Cap that scenario at a minimum of 30-35, I would even say 40. If a group of very skilled players in their level 40's with high end level 40 gear from Nork/Aleria cannot at least handle the starter quests, bosses and grinding, then your level req is still too low.
You might need to tweak the level reqs of the borderland items, but 'life isn't fair - get over it'. If players are already in it, grandfather them in since they paid for the acces - theres a Cob 'ticket seller' for character re-rolls to get bacck in right? Do something similar so that we at least stop the bleeding of characters coming in and getting power-fed XP/skill as soon as they hit level 25. You'll never eliminate all power-leveling and you shouldn't. Some people like that style of play but at least make it reasonable and put a throttle on it a bit.

Your other developers should work the high-end and expand the upper areas of the game. I personally think the core story-line of the game should allow a single player of any class to advance through the main storyline quests, gaining experience and skill as they advance. So therefore level 78 players who are in a level 78 area should gain appropriate skill and xp in that area, have a reasonable chance of being successful if they are playing carefully and gain rewards that will help them with the next area. Maybe you need 1 dev doing the high end core storyline and 1 doing dungeons/areas for parties.

Party areas should be much harder and impossible to accomplish without a balanced party. The rewards should be commenserate with the level of diffiuclty. The rewards here should allow those players to advance much more easily through single player areas for their level range, but not allow them to just stroll through or stand around AFK.

Economy:
Drakkar needs some money sinks. As a ment, I reached a point where I was running out of locker space for 45m checks. That shouldn't happen. Let players voluntarily buff of the condition of their items and make it cost a fortune to do so. Make there be a benefit for doing so, maybe some of those nasty raid-like dungeons can be brutal on all your gear condition and ramping up the condition in the beginning helps them get to the end faster without having to leave to rebuild.
Crafting - get that going. Drakkar's brewing system is about actual experimentation - not like other game systems where you are handed formulas. Players can burn huge amounts of loot trying different combinations of components to find that unique, rare forumla. These items should nearly always be untied so that they can be sold. I know if I found a formula to a rare robe, I'd hoard that knowledge and make a killing selling it to other players outside of my guild!
There have to be other ways to get the economy in Drakkar flowing. Maybe build an auction house? It seems an insanely popular concept is most other games - i've seen iPhone apps for it now!

Ok, that's enough babbling for today. I look forward to seeing other suggestions, but more importantly the implementation of some of these ideas. How about after the conference, sketch out a plan so we can get a feel for what we can look forward to? I realize it's hard to commit to anything - 'real' jobs are struggling in the economy and those of us who still have jobs are carrying around multiple hats and responsibilities compared to a couple off years ago. I think the most important part, from the perspective of a very, very long time player is just some periodic 'Hey i'm still here, I still care' communication.

Thanks for listening.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Stormwind » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:48 am

Oh, 2 other points on groups.

1. XP/skill should only be 'shared' between the person who gains that xp/skill and another party member if they are within 10 levels of each other. A level 75 partying with a level 20, the level 20 should get no xp or skill from those kills at all (maybe it works like this now, I don't remember - been ages since I played).

2. If you seriously are considering having periodic Mega-lairs or similar large group events, make raid grouping available to support it. No xp-skill gains while in the raid, but party, disc and tier abilities should flow based on their respective rules. It might make rewards for that event easier too.

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Migam » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:36 pm

Stormwind wrote:Oh, 2 other points on groups.

1. XP/skill should only be 'shared' between the person who gains that xp/skill and another party member if they are within 10 levels of each other. A level 75 partying with a level 20, the level 20 should get no xp or skill from those kills at all (maybe it works like this now, I don't remember - been ages since I played).
The 20 does receive the exp from the 70, with a large cut... being 25 improves the gain. A 30 can gain 3megs exp while a 75 gains 10megs exp from 1 kill in a 2man party.

Being within 10levels becomes a problem with no one in guild close in size and it's either party with random players with the risk of still being too big or too small or go solo... maybe 20levels apart with deeper cut gains?

Now for the Drak progression up to DL to identify issues.

Nork: "Offers" to buy majors, yellows and ep pots to max 1/5 crits, using multi-accts to keep the collection plate going (it was that obvious). How much can have changed with no swap needed now? Some used to step forward and say "Grow a barb or ment, coin up and buy them for smaller crits; learn the game", others just hand them over... I've helped both ways with advice or a few pots. Others say, stop worrying about con, you're only sweating a few hp less on rests, you're going to be buying at the Nork hpdoc anyway, go coin. Why? Because this obsession with keeping con at 18 ends up with panic if they die, screaming in dz for corpse rescue then fury when no one gets there in time or worse, they rot.

Then there's free gear galore. Many players over the year have made it a point to kill Nork lairs to dump/search in portals and announce it was due to them and a stampede formed. For years, many in dz spoke up to try to discourage this as this is not help and new players that get it all too fast see no challenge and quit. The challenge is the hook. Now, no one speaks up, the ones with the old values have long since left. I recall guilds being stumped on hunt night due to every Nork lair being gone all for the selfish gratification of players to show off that a huge crit can kill Breashard... bravo! What guild now does a hunt night for anything less than Foodguardian? There is no need for lesser areas since players outgrow everything too fast to need it and 1 large player can solo it all anyway. Cob leather and gimmes, why try? I worked for my gear and got no help, was fine with that but I'm not above helping then or now... if the person in need is really willing to help. Ever see a gifted player say they lost their Breash shield and ask for a replacement? Some never had one, the rest rather not try to find it or ask for someone to find it. How hard to ask a reveal thief to check Frore Iceplains? They have gear they're not ready for and they never learned to form tactics to survive.

The new player expects to be carried (not helped) through every scenario. There are Cob/NL size players still asking how to get to GoblinKing and have no clue how to open the door to climbdown to n8. These end up leeching forever and become 70/34 who aren't sure what end of the weapon to hold. How many times have I seen a 18/15 barb beg for a SoG hally in dz. Some, not getting an answer within 5 minutes, yell out "Cmon, none of you NL sized players willing to kill this lair for me?". Why not ask for a Cob party? It's so it's solo'ed for them. The Graaagh hally isn't good enough anymore and be sure they will be asking next for GK2 hally when they are forced to be big enough to use one (or maybe not even wait). Now ask them to join in, it's hesitation then "Can't you just bring out the corpse?" Man, I thought my forged hally was awesome, I went through hell for it and I was large before I got a SoG hally in a guild hunt. But the enablers are cheapening the game and bastardizing every item of worth.

I'm glad Brad added or revised equipment reqs. even if it affected my growing crits. I still have an exp20 BL ring lockered. Maybe, thanks to the gifters, Brad will one day make lair crits drop gear in lair and it will not tie or be usable unless you were within splat range or even better, caused a mininal % of the crits hp in damage. Maybe he'll "voltron" all these lairs so 51+ cannot touch them. It he does, I blame the gifter and the beggar, not Brad...maybe they'll name the nerf or a country song after one of you.

Aleria: It's an awesome scenario that I loved but now this is just the stop-off point (if not skipped) to burn exp to get to Cob, there is little useful here once you grow too fast. My MA still wears the sandals even in Cob because of the memories of the thrill it gave me to find one for me and one for a guildee. I think he nearly cried when he found out our GL had logged him in and put em on his feet. The camo, which it still one of my favorite items, got blown away by the intro of the enhanced BNR, especially the +1s that drop during Cupid event. In fact, I still use the BNR on my thief as their is no other cloak that gives +3 agi and I proudly wear it as my outside cloak. If only the BNR enhancement included camos in the code, I'd cheerfully wear it as a badge saying, I'm a thief! It's a pity that Aleria is so under-utilized. If only the Flisk areas were added, something new to explore with a smaller slot.

Cob: You can exp to 25 and move on to NL. Only special gear has exp reqs here, exp30 the largest I believe.
Or you can end up staying in Cob til 50 though the places of choice for exp/skill are UD4/5 which are usually heavily hunted by the few. Old school, this is how it was before however, after you grow one that way, you don't want to for each slot you have as you have already done the learning curve part. Expanding Cob would help and the newness of it all and even better gains, with higher risk there, would make it worth staying there, with a trip to NL to learn a new tier, get new gear, etc. (UD6-10?) but without the huge jump in crit skill (as in ud3 vs. ud5).

NL: You can just go at 25 and kill Borderlands with high risk from either faction until you finally have the gear and size to survive giants and get to 50 that way as well. Or slowly exp/skill in forgotten for meager gains and fighting with those who insist on seizing the area for hours. After doing the exp50 quest, you stay there til 55/30 attacking giants for 300k exp and decent skill. Sekora has no incentive for hunting and is just a trip to 3 lairs; too much hp, hard to hit, hard to live for smaller size but lotsa of open space if adjusted. The Keep is a great place to skill if you have psi-prots, AS and maybe combat heals if you don't.

To go to DL+ at 25 or even 50 to exp without a pally/MA killing or pally to prot may be an exercise in futility. I have an exp59 healer that is a 2shot in GDH with great gear (so much for combat heals lol). Then it's Primal quest and heading for 70/34 which each level requiring so much more to gain. Mormar growth up to 50 is huge and fast, yes, with help. Without help, I've seen players quit (healers, FMs) if they cannot find someone to help and are available at their beck and call when they are in need (or hand over pw). Yes, there are players who say their non-pally can do well in Mormar deep, sure with highend gear that we all don't have. What options to leeching then? Stand outside with pally in zoo?! Maybe an easier area with less exp and skill that all can utilize when there is no Mormar parties to be had.

All in all, there should be options to allow the solo player to progress even if more slowly, not just a brick wall of no sk35+ below BDH. I have 0.12% and rather grow a healer and FM in Mormar than even try for sk36 on my pally. Tank-class or not, it's not fun solo in SDH on my pally.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Darge » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:53 pm

Migam wrote: The 20 does receive the exp from the 70, with a large cut... being 25 improves the gain. A 30 can gain 3megs exp while a 75 gains 10megs exp from 1 kill in a 2man party.
Exp gain is based on the average party level, and how far below/above it you are. The level 25 factor is the "exp penalty" NL has and Lvl 50+ starts getting double exp from normal kills as well so it can't be all compared on a 1:1 basis without some adjustment.

Anyway...
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I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

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Re: Player Discussion Thread

Post by Martialarts » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Darge wrote:
Migam wrote: The 20 does receive the exp from the 70, with a large cut... being 25 improves the gain. A 30 can gain 3megs exp while a 75 gains 10megs exp from 1 kill in a 2man party.
Exp gain is based on the average party level, and how far below/above it you are. The level 25 factor is the "exp penalty" NL has and Lvl 50+ starts getting double exp from normal kills as well so it can't be all compared on a 1:1 basis without some adjustment.

Anyway...
Why the heck are any size players going to Nameless?! Cap that scenario at a minimum of 30-35, I would even say 40

For those who have serveral accounts and had just one to start for all the years in the game would just kill it have no time to start aother 15 years waiting. Seems a bit odd those who have the abilty to make it slow down. Why ? makes no sense lets chase more player away great idea!

Want more player make it fun. Make the game Questing STOP letting clicks of people run the game. I know lets banish all you have done and start over. Just silly.
The MA
DEATH IS SWEET

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