It is most noticeable when skilling in BDC with a large party, but have also seen it in mormar when zoos get REALLY big.
Anyways the issue is that when you get a big enough zoo npcs will just disappear, never to be seen again... it also seems to break their regen, lowering the overall number of npcs in the area.
Example... 8 people skilling in bdc bread seller cave... dragger pulls a zoo of 20ish npcs. As soon as they get to where the party is, the party will see the zoo for about a round and then all the npcs except maybe 2 vanish from the crit list. A few crits will reappear as the party kills the visible ones, but when it's all said and done there will be 5 dead npcs and 15 npcs just 'gone'.
This really should be looked into/fixed as it hinders group play and only encourages leeching as the whole party can make better skill if the zoo is dragged to where only a couple members of the party will fight.
~niko
disappearing crits
Re: disappearing crits
Click
Crits aren't de-spawning, by the way; they often times can't see you either. Then they just wander away.
Crits aren't de-spawning, by the way; they often times can't see you either. Then they just wander away.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
Re: disappearing crits
Ah, thought it had been brought up before, but didn't feel like searching for the old thread.
And actually they're not just wandering off. It's pretty easy to see when the crit population takes a drastic nose-dive or if you put a thief at entrance to cave - the npcs go in and never come out. It just become much worse once the party size gets very large ... perhaps you haven't had as large of a skill party there to see it at its worst?
But regardless, this really really needs to be looked at as it completely goes against the whole point of a multi-player game.
I can upload a video later to show just how bad it is.
~niko
And actually they're not just wandering off. It's pretty easy to see when the crit population takes a drastic nose-dive or if you put a thief at entrance to cave - the npcs go in and never come out. It just become much worse once the party size gets very large ... perhaps you haven't had as large of a skill party there to see it at its worst?
But regardless, this really really needs to be looked at as it completely goes against the whole point of a multi-player game.
I can upload a video later to show just how bad it is.
~niko
Re: disappearing crits
I've noticed oddities in Mormar similar.
1) Quite a few times, I've dragged my first zoo (no signs anyone killing so no regens happening), start MSing near a boundary wall, suddenly a extra crit is in zoo. I'm not near a door, I didn't see any wander in view and zoo is not big so easy to notice.
2) Quite a few times, I was Msing a huge zoo while against a boundary wall, no door near, suddenly 2 gone.
3) Three times, I'm dragging a large zoo and suddenly a crit is bumped onto a wall hex and stands there. No explosion when it moves off but I cannot go on that hex, door, etc.
Maybe I'm nuts but I get the feeling some crits are actually getting bumped through to the next adjoining floor (yes, many touch). The crits that bumped onto the wall occurred only on south boundary walls (however I normally don't drag or MS against south boundary walls so it's possible that would happen alot more if I did), the ones that vanished or appeared only did on north boundary walls I also don't use a proner so who knows if having one would cause this to happen more. I can always set a twig on the other side, wait to see what crit vanishes but hard to track the names and too random.
Those 3 Bread shop hexes combined have 3 walls going to parts unknown that could potentially do the same IF this is possible. That would affect regen if they are alive and nothing kills them there.
Edit: Grammar
1) Quite a few times, I've dragged my first zoo (no signs anyone killing so no regens happening), start MSing near a boundary wall, suddenly a extra crit is in zoo. I'm not near a door, I didn't see any wander in view and zoo is not big so easy to notice.
2) Quite a few times, I was Msing a huge zoo while against a boundary wall, no door near, suddenly 2 gone.
3) Three times, I'm dragging a large zoo and suddenly a crit is bumped onto a wall hex and stands there. No explosion when it moves off but I cannot go on that hex, door, etc.
Maybe I'm nuts but I get the feeling some crits are actually getting bumped through to the next adjoining floor (yes, many touch). The crits that bumped onto the wall occurred only on south boundary walls (however I normally don't drag or MS against south boundary walls so it's possible that would happen alot more if I did), the ones that vanished or appeared only did on north boundary walls I also don't use a proner so who knows if having one would cause this to happen more. I can always set a twig on the other side, wait to see what crit vanishes but hard to track the names and too random.
Those 3 Bread shop hexes combined have 3 walls going to parts unknown that could potentially do the same IF this is possible. That would affect regen if they are alive and nothing kills them there.
Edit: Grammar
Last edited by Migam on Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: disappearing crits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrA_HDEHbOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0DmiwkE_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuIoXWxybV8
These are 3 crit perspectives while 2 of them are pallies dragging... one is a hidden thief to show you that these crits disappear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0DmiwkE_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuIoXWxybV8
These are 3 crit perspectives while 2 of them are pallies dragging... one is a hidden thief to show you that these crits disappear.
Re: disappearing crits
Very compelling evidence. Most everything beyond 14 onhex imo went through a wall. This is similar to coins going under a wall... game trying to move it to a 500k hex, bumps another 500k then with no other place to go, it slides under wall.
I couldn't explain why it happened all at once except to say that maybe there is some round, call it a maintenance round that stuff can slip through like this. Wonder why it's limited to crits unless game only monitors player's positions.
Nice method to capture this. Would be useful for other debugging.
I couldn't explain why it happened all at once except to say that maybe there is some round, call it a maintenance round that stuff can slip through like this. Wonder why it's limited to crits unless game only monitors player's positions.
Nice method to capture this. Would be useful for other debugging.
Re: disappearing crits
My parties are generally smaller, so yes, that might have to do with me not seeing this.niko wrote: And actually they're not just wandering off. It's pretty easy to see when the crit population takes a drastic nose-dive or if you put a thief at entrance to cave - the npcs go in and never come out. It just become much worse once the party size gets very large ... perhaps you haven't had as large of a skill party there to see it at its worst?
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
Re: disappearing crits
I have also had this occur when dragging a large zoo (over 1 page), however it was not limited to when i was in or passing through a tight area. Fairly often ill be in a open area (2 hex or more open in all directions) and i'll suddenly only see @ a half page of crit flags and on-screen crits, only to have some or what i think is all of them re-appear. Body count is usually in excess of 30 but not always.
In this instance i could see when my hex is full that those off-hex would loose sight of me and wander off, but that would atleast leave 25-30 who could see me and i should "see" the others wander when in an open area.
I wondered if those that vanished and re-appeared were a thief class going throu the hide/attack cycle.
Second note; I have had these large zoos bump, jump or slide (take your pick) on to a wall hex when i am passing through a narrow passage or standing for several rounds next to two walls or more.
Hope this helps.
In this instance i could see when my hex is full that those off-hex would loose sight of me and wander off, but that would atleast leave 25-30 who could see me and i should "see" the others wander when in an open area.
I wondered if those that vanished and re-appeared were a thief class going throu the hide/attack cycle.
Second note; I have had these large zoos bump, jump or slide (take your pick) on to a wall hex when i am passing through a narrow passage or standing for several rounds next to two walls or more.
Hope this helps.
Don't blame the darkness, its only following its nature... instead ask why your light isn't brighter
Glorifel
Connan
Silhouette
Perseus
Glorifel
Connan
Silhouette
Perseus
Re: disappearing crits
Some more possibly helpful info...
If you leave one player off the main zoo hex it seems to help a few more crits not disappear ... even if none of the crits are actually on that player's hex and they're still all on the main zoo hex.
If you leave one player off the main zoo hex it seems to help a few more crits not disappear ... even if none of the crits are actually on that player's hex and they're still all on the main zoo hex.