NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

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Acaciam
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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Acaciam » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:47 am

I know my posts are long and I tend to babble, but no one has asked that the exp per kill in Mormar remain the same if it were to become a solo area. I, along with others, have even stated that any type of solo dungeon should take longer to level than in a party. We just want to have the option to do it because we're obviously not nearly as talented and patient as Cobra. We're looking for an alternate option to power leveling here, not trying to bypass restrictions to continue it.

Merlin your idea is great, but we all know that'll never happen because it requires too much work.
Leave m16+ for levels 50+. Honestly, what 50+ is going to waste time in m1-10? (don't answer)

Rather than build a whole new dungeon (which will never happen) all that needs to be done is have m1-10 re-tuned to make it solo'able by all classes with a moderate difficulty for your level, which can increase much like undead city. Mormar 5-10 can be exp 40+, etc, etc.

Also,
-Hatching scales don't encumber, but they're exp 50+ now, so we're still stuck with griffy scales until then. (sarcasm)
-If one class can easily solo the best xp area in the game, shouldn't I be able to also? Or at least get similar gains in a different area.
-Dornar/ancients/arun is great with a ment, but that's still powerleveling imo.
-Regarding the above, Dornar is great for skill, let's leave it for that.
-If you intend for NL to be 50+, then make it 50+ to purchase/enter and put and end to this.
-If you're going to stick us in cob til 50, I don't have a problem with it, but ud5 needs to be reworked for non-barbs also. Or make crazycob not so.. well, crazy.
-How about we make autobalm heal for a max of 1k and take away vamp.
-Why is slowing this game down a good thing? I don't think you should be able to max out soon, it should take a long time. We're not asking to level any faster, we're asking to be able to level on our own, not in a party, and not leeching off of someone.

My concerns are a. 30-50 slump (and by 30 I mean 25 if cob remains the same) and b. while NL isn't a level 25 area, if we can purchase it at 25 you should give us a spot to dink around in. Mormar still requires factioning, sira, vials, etc. It's not a free ride.

I haven't seen a good reason not to change momo. Being an elitist and not wanting new players to see the end game and "it should be hard because it was hard for me" are not good reasons. People don't burn out because they build a maxed character, it makes them want to stick around and play new content because they enjoyed the experience. Those that do are ones that had a character built for them because they were frustrated with the lack of solo playability, or find that it's more fun to sit in the lobby and chat because they can't see progress without giving up their lives.

Pillars is a good example, it's not super exp (it's actually a bit low), it's decent skill, but you can sit there for hours upon hours and PLAY the game. I don't consider gathering succor rings to make twigs to buy a full sack of IHs to kill 1 mob every 10 mins playing. We want to make splats and be able to do it on our own with mediocre gains at least until level 50+ after that is another story.

Martialarts
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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Martialarts » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:05 am

Cyric wrote:This whole thread and other is increasing funny as I read through them. First people complain that others are growing to quickly through power leveling and skipping scenarios of content. Then they quit because they cap out at 78/39 with nothing left to do other than growing alts. Then complain when limits are imposed to slow things down.

Some changes are made to limit access to areas to force players to explore the game. Each change is to limit this or limit that. I'm sure the changes are made to keep the players interested and keep coming back. No game is fun when levels or gear is easily obtained. No one values them at that point. All my best times here were when guildies got together for hunting lairs, gear, etc. That should be the focus of the game.

I agree totally with establishing level limit to Mormar. 50 is a good start for entry but I'd say 55. Even at that level it can be had. Anyone who started this game in the last 5 years has no reason to complain at all. You now have the benefit tiers and quirks. These make this game incredibly easier than it was. The harder the better IMO. That way you value more what you obtain.

Cobra's post above is spot on in finding solo spots in Mormar for higher levels. Now it's even easier with the damage is lessened. As I did also the M16 solo routine. Growing myself almost totally 55-70 that way, without tiers and quirks. I took great pride at at being one of the first capped barbs in mid-1995 (if not the first).

Do not interpret this as a call for returning to the old days because we're long past that. However, by placing speed bumps in place to slow things down is a good start.

I know you don't see me online anymore so I may be missing some new changes. I can't be enticed back with crazy this or challenge that. They are nothing more than a diversion while new content is being created (or is it?). GDH/BDC/SDC are basically small additions to NL. I want to be wow'ed back into playing. At this point a complete new scenario can only accomplish this. NL is over.

I'll take my soapbox and go home now.

Not all are Barbs what a joke Barb this Barb that.. Make ZERO sense to say those I was here Long ago ecen Before most. I have stood the test of time. I am rasing other a thief a fm a pally.. I do not want to make the frind again. No thanks,, I really have to say Barbs have more fun but none of the others do. Besides i hate smelly barbs..

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Martialarts » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:08 am

Acaciam wrote:I know my posts are long and I tend to babble, but no one has asked that the exp per kill in Mormar remain the same if it were to become a solo area. I, along with others, have even stated that any type of solo dungeon should take longer to level than in a party. We just want to have the option to do it because we're obviously not nearly as talented and patient as Cobra. We're looking for an alternate option to power leveling here, not trying to bypass restrictions to continue it.

Merlin your idea is great, but we all know that'll never happen because it requires too much work.
Leave m16+ for levels 50+. Honestly, what 50+ is going to waste time in m1-10? (don't answer)

Rather than build a whole new dungeon (which will never happen) all that needs to be done is have m1-10 re-tuned to make it solo'able by all classes with a moderate difficulty for your level, which can increase much like undead city. Mormar 5-10 can be exp 40+, etc, etc.

Also,
-Hatching scales don't encumber, but they're exp 50+ now, so we're still stuck with griffy scales until then. (sarcasm)
-If one class can easily solo the best xp area in the game, shouldn't I be able to also? Or at least get similar gains in a different area.
-Dornar/ancients/arun is great with a ment, but that's still powerleveling imo.
-Regarding the above, Dornar is great for skill, let's leave it for that.
-If you intend for NL to be 50+, then make it 50+ to purchase/enter and put and end to this.
-If you're going to stick us in cob til 50, I don't have a problem with it, but ud5 needs to be reworked for non-barbs also. Or make crazycob not so.. well, crazy.
-How about we make autobalm heal for a max of 1k and take away vamp.
-Why is slowing this game down a good thing? I don't think you should be able to max out soon, it should take a long time. We're not asking to level any faster, we're asking to be able to level on our own, not in a party, and not leeching off of someone.

My concerns are a. 30-50 slump (and by 30 I mean 25 if cob remains the same) and b. while NL isn't a level 25 area, if we can purchase it at 25 you should give us a spot to dink around in. Mormar still requires factioning, sira, vials, etc. It's not a free ride.

I haven't seen a good reason not to change momo. Being an elitist and not wanting new players to see the end game and "it should be hard because it was hard for me" are not good reasons. People don't burn out because they build a maxed character, it makes them want to stick around and play new content because they enjoyed the experience. Those that do are ones that had a character built for them because they were frustrated with the lack of solo playability, or find that it's more fun to sit in the lobby and chat because they can't see progress without giving up their lives.

Pillars is a good example, it's not super exp (it's actually a bit low), it's decent skill, but you can sit there for hours upon hours and PLAY the game. I don't consider gathering succor rings to make twigs to buy a full sack of IHs to kill 1 mob every 10 mins playing. We want to make splats and be able to do it on our own with mediocre gains at least until level 50+ after that is another story.

I agree with you we dont want something for nothing willing to work for it just not sit around.. 35 to 40 1-5 40 to 45 5-10 50+ 10-25

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Merlin » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:52 am

There is no rule that says you have to sit around and burn dornar, you just do it because its most efficient. Try killing them one at a time when your level 25 this is awesome skill and experience.

I thought borderlands NL was introduced as a lvl 35 area. 1-35 in cob isnt unrealistic(especially since you can get to 25 then gain excellent exp in dornar<although I know dornar is boring>)

I certainly have no objections to mormar 1-10 being scaled a little better and allowing <lvl50 there.

But you have to understand when mormar was first introduced this was and still is a difficult dungeon for a level 55 party character and almost impossible solo because of gear restraints, its not fun in mama scales and a reggie!

How ever if you throw mant plate and two lich robes<we never had these> on a lvl 35 pally then its a different story.

Unfortunately in the armor respect the MA's do have it rough, but you guys seriously tear up the end game once you hit 70. Barbs also get nailed in the armor department until level 56 but I guess thats just how brad thought best to balance the classes.

If mormar is altered I think 1-10 should have an entry level of 35 atleast.

(as much as I hate to say it, things change, and sometimes for the better)
But what will happen then, people will find the most efficient way to power level there, and then there will be more complains that there isnt enough variety, and the game is boring.

NL was introduced as a party scenario and thus why the benefits of having a party can be seen in huge exp/skill gain when compared to solo. But if your finding it hard to survive in solo mode then perhaps many of the people posting on this thread should team up and then you have an instant party.

The few people that remain on drakkar these days you cant really afford not to hunt together.

Its a never ending situation that there isnt a please all solution.
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Acaciam
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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Acaciam » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:45 am

I agree, but who would be displeased with making a new leveling area?

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Longbeard » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:51 am

Cyric wrote: I want to be wow'ed back into playing. At this point a complete new scenario can only accomplish this. NL is over.
Sounds 100% right to me.

What i think Drakkar needs to keep up / stay populated is a lot of work.
New scenario / major update (like new map) every year.
Constantly adding small content, an example would be to build a new fun house in e-nork
/ populate all empty counters everywhere with traders and questors.

Allow / create new classes and skills as character advances in exp levels.

Make entry into segments exp level req as well as quest req. For example guild hall is a convenience for lazy players like me and is not worth $10 a month and when i pay now it it is really a donation to support the game in which i logged years worth of time, years ago...

Create comprehencive Help files / website ?

Make 3 levels of subscription, very streamlined, nothing hidden anywhere.

1.Free: Nork alt 1 only. Same max on ep/hp as pay game.
2.Gold: $5 a month, gets you all content of the game.
3.Bonus: Gold +$5, double exp and skill gain of gold.

Make all places and scenarios entry driven by quests and exp level of characters (if you pay, Free should be stuck in Alt 1 Nork world.)
Make most quests expire, for example if you accomplish a quest at level 20, you should need to do it at 30 and 40 and 50 again, change it up a bit, offer upgrades on the benefits of doing it again and again?

There has to be a lot to do on all levels of the game and game should be cheaper.

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Brad » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:26 pm

So, a dungeon like mormar, where the creatures have 1/10th the health but give 1/10th experience?

Is that the right ratio?

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Cyric » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:05 pm

Or how about this: Remove the level 50 requirement on Mormar itself but allow only those who have complete the level 50 quest access to the Great Halls in addition to the tributes Emergon wants. I feel the only level limit in Mormar (if you can call it that) is Rift Guardian. No way any level below 70 should be there anyway.

With today's gear/quirks, you're going to get fast leveling from 50-78 anyway no matter what tweaks are applied. Fact is, GDH/BDC/SDC are not for gathering exp anyway, Mormar is. Leave Mormar the way it was.
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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Quaternion » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:50 pm

Cyric, you mentioned that people power growing meant they just grew and left, this may have been true but no with no caps people still don't stay. I know its a repitition of previous points but I think currently the level/skill caps on areas is limiting player retention, people simply cant be bothered to do the grind in arun/keep and dornar. When I used to grind in those areas one of the saving grace was that I could always find people to do this with and chat. There is now not enough player base to do this.

The key requirement for retention is in my opinion is "Variety", every creature and level in mormar and dormar looks pretty much the same. This is very tedious. Variety in all aspects makes aleria and nork far more interesting if this could somehow be replicated in a NL setting it would give players less than level 50 a reason to buy and hunt in NL.

So, Brad, when you say
So, a dungeon like mormar, where the creatures have 1/10th the health but give 1/10th experience?
I would say nope, a dungeon unlike mormar and more like nork dungeons, see Merlin, Acaciams and Migams post above on what the content should be.

As for exp, I am not sure what it should be per crit but it should allow a player to gain more than arun/keep burning on level 1 which is 100meg an hour but less than dornar in an hour (which if i remember correctly is about 200meg?) on level 10 in solo play. I imagine such tweaking is hard to do and will need to be done post dungeon creation.

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Acaciam » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:37 pm

..and not just a linear scale down of hp/exp.

The damage output needs to drop a bit also. They don't hit hard, which is fine, but they hit far too often. You get 1-rounded with an auto-hit gib when you get more than 2-3 mobs.

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Eej » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:37 pm

I would like to see a new area say 30-50 ,I would love factioning to be included in this dungeon in some way ,be it turn ins from drops or from killing mobs.
Area should be have solo areas and harder group areas ,xps wise a little better than say ud5 but not the million or millions a kill you get in mormar.
Area would ideally have gear there to suit 30-50,s and be lvl restricted to stop pimping out the little guys on same account.
How this is acheived is either by scaling down some areas already in the game that are unused for hunting or by changing the lower levels of mormar ? ..im open to either.

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Re: NL Cost vs use. lvl 50? rethink that maybe

Post by Martialarts » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:06 am

Yes an area in NL with a scale Equal to the level lets say drops include some gear that you can use like in momar lvl 30 to 40 bracers ect Its own area also maybe some way to let those skill locked can do a quest to skill as well maybe even some sort of primal path typ quest. a 20 level dungon lvl 1 is ok for a lvl 30 to solo it.. each lvl can allow progression based on lvl of the critter that wat it cant be abused. Factioning a huge plus..
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