It's too easy.

General User Chat
User avatar
Poldarn
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

It's too easy.

Post by Poldarn »

Drakkar is way too easy now. no-one knows anything, cos they didnt earn anything. no-one knows how to play, cos they dont have to know how.

Reset the drakkar server. ill join.

your turn to reply what you think ppls.
ZuLnOtH, Formerly of Zand.

User avatar
Pepma
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:44 pm
Location: right behind you

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Pepma »

Do you still play WoW? or did you discover how insanely easier that game is compared to nearly any MMORPG on the market....

User avatar
Frozboz
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:01 pm

Replying to Topic 'I

Post by Frozboz »

Complete crit wipes would be interesting. It will never happen though. But I'd be the first one to offer up my high level crit as a sacrifice to make the game playable again. I also doubt I'm the only one.

I've been slammed by certain Sysops lately for criticizing without providing solutions, so here's something that might be do-able: A fresh, brand new server or "world", whatever. Call it alt3. No way at all to transfer crits on or off the server. Keep it Nork or maybe Nork/Aleria only. I think many would pay to play there..

The game (nork) is challenging playing as a newbie. Try it sometime, even with twinked gear it's a blast.
Last edited by Frozboz on Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brad
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:46 am

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Brad »

Its funny you mention that froz, when I bought my last 1U box, it freed up two 4U boxes. I was going to give one to flisk for his area, and was thinking about making an old-style nork game where you kept your account but when you entered it went to another character server, and rolled a level 1 dock baby merchant with reasonable stats, and dropped him into the game.

I'm not sure how long it would stay "fun" for the players, but it would be neat to see people putting in all the old strategies to get that first draggy kill, etc.

Maybe that would be a good "spring fling" type of thing.

User avatar
Darge
Posts: 672
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:54 pm
Title: The Raging Storm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Darge »

Drakkar is way too easy now
Blame it on the schools. Err, I mean...

If you want to say nork/aleria/cobrahn are easier, well they are and that is because the community as a whole is larger. If you want to say NL is too easy, well I'd attribute that to lack of crit diversity on the large scale and linearity post borderlands. For example, "Oh look, this crit has 5 attacks a round..."

Easy or not, I would say fun is the real issue, of which I still have loads of, even when im in n1, n3, n4, clickers, timmy, ud, pillars, haunts, grr castle, etc. whilst I work secondary weapons. Old memories and quirks make it fun. Memories always make my return to hunting grounds enjoyable, and quirks, not so much for the benefits they give, but that as a ugh+gold player, you feel like you are consistently earning towards something more within reach (1 qp every 30min to an hour, compared to 100% skill or hundreds of millions, or a few billion exp points). I had oodles of fun in NL at times, and if I still hunted places like keep, forge, and bog more often, I'd continue to.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

trav: you bad bad girl

landlubber
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:55 pm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by landlubber »

It's only as easy at the players choose it to be. Nobody has to take gear they cannot help participate in the hunt to obtain it. Nobody has to give gear out to others that really have no business possessing it. Certainly, nobody is forced to sell gear. If the community wanted to place an emphasis on each player earning their passage, they'd do it. It's the community's responsibility to foster the importance of that rite and it's not something that can be forced by rules of the game developer.

On our first character we play, everything is new and everything is hard, and thus everything is fun. At some point however, growth slows down, the method becomes tedious, and there are a lack of new things to keep player interest. This point will be different for each person before something changes to make the experience fun again. If a player builds a second character, a lof of the things making it fun the first time around will no longer be new and certainly not hard and it'll just be tedious/not fun. Players expect growth on a secondary character to be faster. They'll use what they've learned with their first character to play "better" on their second. This is where unhappy consequences of forcing a "rite of passage" by placing level restrictions on gear can be a hard thing to balance. The player building a second character will think the number is too high. They've already finished the quest or killed the creature with one character and want to reap the reward and have fun with the item with another, especially if they can't use the item with the first character because of class restrictions. A new player may be aware of the level requirement on the piece of gear and mistakenly think that once they have achieved that experience level that they are now worthy to wear the gear. The end result is that in most cases the veteran will resort to other methods to grow their second character faster to play with the item, because he/she wants to experience something new (ie. fun). The new player misses out on a lot of the growth and knowledge that the veteran had to learn to best the lair or finish the quest to get the gear initially.

It's in the player's nature to find the fastest method to reach a goal, at least on some level. Some will use it, others will think it's cheating, while others may avoid it because they don't enjoy that style of play. I think everyone is different on this in some given aspect. Making a veteran server won't change the nature of the player. The only thing changed will be the method that one veteran grows. The method may or may not be "fun" to him/her, but the end result (making numbers go up) has a higher utility than the actual process of getting there. Another veteran player will see the first veteran grow faster than him or her and say he's cheating. Yet another veteran will just play the game in his or her own way balancing what they think is fun with trying to reach some level of satisfaction in their rate of growth.

And it'll always be easier and faster for those doing it after someone else has done it first. It's only a matter of time before something that was once a "secret" becomes common knowledge. Again, everyone is likely different here. Some will want to figure things out for themselves while others will try and find out as much as they can from others, and there are others who won't try to figure out anything at all, and just hope to get a piece of the cheese from someone else. A game developer has less control over this than he/she does with forcing a rite of passage. It's up to the player-base to determine what remains secret and what becomes common knowledge.

I know other games have tried similiar things. Veteran players wanting to relive the days of yore when things were rough and all was new. I can only speak of one from firsthand knowledge: the Siege Perilous shard of Ultima Online. Slower skill gains, slower coin/resource growth, only one character on that shard per account to reduce the cash cow crit every player had on other shards. It was fun for the relatively small number of players who actively played on that shard. In the end, I think it became just a really big headache for the devs however. A little code change can have a lot of different effects when a new bug springs up. A bug where coin/xp/skill can be obtained at a faster rate can drastically alter the "economy" on a veteran server where things are supposed to be more difficult. Fixing that bug can often require different methods for different code. Fixes are always slower on the segment of the game that has the lowest population. So are updates. Some might argue slower updates, or none at all, are a good thing though.

Rather longwinded, sorry about that. My point is that forcing a rite of passage is better left to the community. I'd rather see extra space used for new content. No game can keep the interest of all of its playerbase forever. New things have to be added, if not to keep the interest of the players, but also to keep the interest of the developers. Some will like it. Some won't and will move on to another game. Eventually, everyone does.

User avatar
flisk
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:14 pm
Title: King of Drakkar
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by flisk »

I'd think it would be neat to see a form of score system in that "alt" as well, perhaps something that is wiped each month.

With random monsters spwaning in different areas; like you are hunting the mama-naga and suddenly the black dragon shows up.
Or you are fighting Uther and Breshard shows up.

somthing chaotic.

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:51 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Merlin »

a clean server wipe would be awesome. PLEASE DO IT


even if your not gonna wipe current server, make another one where everyone has to start FRESH with a level 1 merchant, yes it would be fun. dont bother putting ni breshard at mama naga though. thats a tad too chaoitc i think, that would be cool for current status, be like player appreciation all over.

*Merlz*
Elessar: karbeck is a sweety

User avatar
Frozboz
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:01 pm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Frozboz »

Why does it have to have manufactured chaotic-ness? Starting fresh as a level 1 with zero help other than from other level 1s would be chaotic enough for 90% of the Drakkar community. Removing chits, removing guildhalls, sissy-pansy skill gains. That would own, and I know Brad's itching to do it.

"What? I have to get my own gear??"

"What?? I'm ready for Uther, why can't I have one?"

"Where are the stairs for km-2?"

Agreed flisk, bring back the scoreboard for that alt. Maybe even "1st kill" or "1st to xx skill/level" lists also. It would be a blast.

If you're not going to do a total character wipe at least add a nork-only scenario isolated from the other alts. Brad, remember when we went from the PDP-11 to the UNIX box? You did a crit wipe then, it was widely seen as a progressive act. Tons of fun "saying goodbye" and pushing our crits to the limit then if I remember correctly.

Athena
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 1:06 pm
Title: Goddess aka ROADKILL
Location: Mount Olympus

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Athena »

I don't see the fun in redoing an area I am already familar with. Want fun? Make some place totally new that you can only start at lvl 1 at that no one at all has ever been to. Too many players are already armed with Nork/Aleria knowledge. Where is the challenge in that? Gee, i can log into one of my freebie accounts and play solo if I want that kind of entertainment. :sarc
I am the Goddess of wisdom, the breath of life...
Protectress of Heroes brave and valorous.

User avatar
Kanak
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 11:48 am

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Kanak »

Originally posted by Brad
............. about making an old-style nork game where you kept your account but when you entered it went to another character server, and rolled a level 1 dock baby merchant with reasonable stats, and dropped him into the game.
What a yummy idea:)

Perhaps you could find the oldest archived code compatible with the current interface.

No big tweaks! Well maybe just a little word filter for SF where the phrase "I NEED" creates a vortex.


"Those that can DO. Those that can't LEECH"

User avatar
Stormwind
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:18 pm
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Stormwind »

While I understand the sentiment behind this thread, I think you guys will be disappointed rather quickly. Even the rankings system will mostly be a matter of which of the veteran players can clock the most time in the game. I personally believe that new content will be more satisfying.

But hey, if enough people have the interest and its not a major time sink for Brad to do, knock yourselves out!

-Stormwind
"Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you."

User avatar
Dragonslayer
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:06 am

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Dragonslayer »

I'd create a new account to play on the clean alt. Might even get it payed.
Dragonslayer of PHNX

Tnem
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:05 am
Title: Lord
Location: UK
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Tnem »

I have to say i really dont see the point. You can start again on a level 1 crit and have no help except from other level 1 crits on the system at the moment. Iit just takes willpower not to give in to getting help from other people.
Tnem
Wakka - "The moles are rejoicing in the victory". Damn those moles
Visit my website http://www.tnem.co.uk

User avatar
Teh_Cheat
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Nork
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Teh_Cheat »

I'd like to have a little scenario where everyone started at lvl 1 and was stripped. We'd have to search for pots, coin, gear, etc. I'd be a blast.
SIN

Vsari
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:32 pm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Vsari »

This is not a good idea. I have various accounts that I worked very hard to get my characters to a pretty big size. You may want to throw others massive amount play time away but I dont and I dont think Brad is that stupid either.

User avatar
Darge
Posts: 672
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:54 pm
Title: The Raging Storm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Darge »

Or, expand Mjorin into a full scenario.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

trav: you bad bad girl

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:51 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Merlin »

Or, expand Mjorin into a full scenario.
Best thing said so far.

*Merlz*
Elessar: karbeck is a sweety

landlubber
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:55 pm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by landlubber »

If brad does anything with mjorin, he ought to disable tiers. There are already enough instances of others cheating because they find it not "too easy".

User avatar
Teh_Cheat
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Nork
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Teh_Cheat »

Originally posted by Vsari


This is not a good idea. I have various accounts that I worked very hard to get my characters to a pretty big size. You may want to throw others massive amount play time away but I dont and I dont think Brad is that stupid either.
I'd appreciate it if you didn't say it was stupid. All you had to say was I didn't like the idea. There's a great amount of the game you haven't experienced, and sometimes I'd like to go back to Nork with my guild, and have no help at all, and not a single temptation to make something easy.
SIN

Gizmak666
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:23 pm
Location: the back of your fridge
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Gizmak666 »

Originally posted by landlubber
If brad does anything with mjorin, he ought to disable tiers. There are already enough instances of others cheating because they find it not "too easy".
Perhaps I should put this in another thread but it's come up here. I'm sure it'll come out in the end that I don't know what I'm talking about, however, I've got two tiers that don't seem to work outside of NL. I can post more details is you want.

My point is that if Brad can make these tiers work only in a certain scenario then the fact that he hasn't made all tiers that way tells me he that's how he wants them to work. Or, said another way, there's no reason why tiers can't be 'disabled' in one or more scenarios because there are currently tiers set up that way.

Oliveloaf__ICE

User avatar
Darge
Posts: 672
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:54 pm
Title: The Raging Storm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Darge »

I remember someone saying in dz once (might have been elessar) the reason certain tiers dont work outside of nameless (claws, razorblades) is that they use something for the attack that doesn't exist on the other scenario servers (an invisible weapon or something). Then again, that whole bit could just be the product of my imagination.

Anyway, I would assume Mjorin is on the same server as Nork (seeing as a fix hasn't been dealt out in a speedy manner) so any scenario wide ways to do it would require mjorin going to a seperate server.
Last edited by Darge on Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

trav: you bad bad girl

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:51 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Merlin »

Mjorin is on the same server as nork.

IMO Quirks should also be idsabled in mj.

Comments please.


*Merlz*
Elessar: karbeck is a sweety

User avatar
Mars
Admin
Admin
Posts: 3134
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:44 pm
Location: Evil is Everywhere

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Mars »

that is the intent as soon as Brad can figure out a way to temp disable them

User avatar
Darge
Posts: 672
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:54 pm
Title: The Raging Storm

Replying to Topic 'It's too easy.'

Post by Darge »

IMO Quirks should also be disabled in mj.
I whole-heartedly agree. Should probably still be able to earn the points, just not able to buy anything or have them functional.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

trav: you bad bad girl

Post Reply