Barb Changes Feedback

[Ztinktoof]

Hasted primal barb + Enhanced Rage quirk outdamages a hasted primal paladin. Both with tricked-out killer hallys.

Add in calm resistance and the class is oodles of fun to play again.

That's how it should be.

NL barbs have been fixed. Good job Brad! Time to move on.

[spidermanEDGE]

hey, just thought I'd throw in something. The way it was when I played: Good or bad, i loved being a barb. I loved just saying dumb stuff and making people laugh. I loved amazing low level buggers by whacking the black dragon naked...i loved soloing things and being eaten...I loved complaining about being eaten...

I remember the only disadvantage to being a barb was I could hit like a house, but only one target at a time. If the same thing holds, I think it is important we hit the hardest, but one crit at a time. Believe it or not, it's a pain in the ass. You sit there and it takes hours upon hours to lvl, and then when you do, it doesn't matter because you are above level whatever. And how awesome is it to never have to change clothes. A barb wears one outfit and only has to change for a reggie hunt into his slith robes. I love not being affected by enemy ments. I love breaking gear for xp. I love not being able to talk while zerked. In my opinion, aside from healers, barbs are the only class that takes skill. It's not easy not breaking +9 hallies people lend you to see how hard you hit. It's not easy to not kill all your friends after the battle. But it's a hoot!! In all, if you dont like being a barb, dont be one.

Other than that, all is going pretty well in college, except this paper I'm writing on Asynchronous Processor Design is kicking my ass. Email me at peltzel@gmail.com if you know anything about the topic and can help me out on it.

Enjoy the wonderful game all:

Ben

[Brad]

After reviewing the recent changes to barbs, and watching barbs do some amazing soloing events, I realize that the combination of quirks, new items (cough), was too much to add in with the haste issue.

Just enhanced rage alone is uberizing them.

So, i'm going to be pulling back the haste on the next reset, and studying their power again. I appreciate all the feedback, and I appreciate everyone fully "taking advantage" of the test cycle on the ability (especially you soloers) (smile)

Its good we have such a close community we can try stuff out, and get such honest feedback from the barbs involved. It makes me more likely just to throw stuff in and try it. This one didnt work out, sure, but we can move on to some more "flavor" commands now.

Thanks,
Brad

[Esper]

Thanks Brad

[spidermanEDGE]

why not just add another level to zerk? so all the bonuses would boost by another notch.

[Tirith]

wild eyed and drooling haha, That doesnt make barbs more fun, its just more of the same that barbs already do, spam B and arg. Perhaps some people have fun spamming 2 macros, but alot of players prefer being able to do other stuff, not just one thing the entire time they play.

[Crusher]

Well, I'll be unhappy with the changes when haste is removed. Kind of interesting finally being able to solo stuff that other classes kill 10 rounds slower... Cob has been unbalanced, the only way to keep barbs from overdominating that scenario is by having an NL only disc like MAs and their claws. But even then Other classes will still outdo Barbs. The only

NL, Barbs can solo certain High End lairs because of Vamping. Other lower end lairs can be solo'd by all. Some better than others. IMO, Vamping should be reduced on lairs while hasted. Either that or some other way to make up for damage. As it is, Same size paladins continue to outdamage Barbs, even with haste. The proning gives barbs a ton of help on certain lairs.

By the way, some feedback isn't honest... remember, if you're the big damage class and someone else begins to take your place, of course someone's gonna get edgy.

[Ztinktoof]

The Enhanced Rage quirk is a significant boost, even for small barbarians. Altho I loved the haste, it probably was a bit over the top.

I think they do need a damage boost replacement for it in Mormar though. I would like to suggest a tier that gives a personal boost to armor penetration.

Crushing Blows: ?? duration, ?? cooldown, barbarian attacks get a bonus to defeat opponent armor. Armor penetration boost is increased by barbarian weapon skill.

Barbs with tiers do more than just mash the berserk/arg buttons. I am constantly monitoring and managing cries, sweats and gaze. The changes to make them party friendly was a great idea.

[Brad]

Thats what we need .. we need ideas for "buttons" they can press with temporary/short burst abilities.. That arent all damage based.

So, brainstorm. haha

[Cheese]

Not sure about the barb class all that much but...

Either a quirk(which would be more suiting for it)

or some tier that would allow a "harden skin" which would give them an improved base armor value.

Like, Battered visage: Barbarian's skin has toughened over the years increasing their resistance to x dmg type(could be slashing, smashing, so on and so on)

or a tier that would allow them to add an additional ammount to their pooled hits(on a different timer than what froth is) that wouldn't be affected by calm and other such antifroth mechanisms in game?

Neither boost dmg out put, just create higher dmg intake, giving them a bit more survivability when hunting.

[Tranquil]

Why not just keep the haste and nurf vamping 50-75% while hasted...

[Crusher]

I don't really understand why people think Barbs like button pushing... If we wanted that, we could be a paladin that hastes, drinks, parries, maxstrikes, multistrikes. It's the fact that Barbs become obsolete by 1 single class. Damage, defense, and almost HP.

[Tranquil]

I agree. I switched from pally to barb for that very reason. I like to play a class that doesnt require excessive clicking.

Brad, barbs perhaps shouldnt get the full benefits of haste, as their unique class design makes it unbalanced (2-8 chances to prone/flat every round is a bit much) and vamping is too much hasted.

I think that haste is the easiest and best idea to go with..just nerf a barbs haste. Make vamp go off once every 2 rounds, or just reduce it 50% while hasted. Make barb get half the speed increase that pallys do from haste. Full normal haste is obviously excessive power for a large barbarian.

[Crusher]

Currently, the only unbalancing thing with Barbs while Hasted is the Vamping. On lairs, it's overpowered because lairs seem to have an awfully low chance to block barb's attacks, not to mention they only attack one person and not for much most of the time. Proning on lairs isn't an extreme problem as all mormar lairs and high end lairs can't be proned. BL, Ajam, Mormar, Lich, NL, right off the top of my mind. But once you get done with those lairs. Some lairs can be proned, Albron, Lani, but Proning is half the strategy on those 2. In mormar, I can compare with a Paladin's baiting ability if I sit there Hasted and attacking. Vamping about 75% of the damage they do to me, while AB takes care of when I'm getting close to death. However, I still die.

[Suggs]

Am I missing something?? Who is giving this 'honest' feedback? What lairs are being soloed? To my knowledge, only Crusher and myself 70+. Haste goes no where near making the barb uber, even with the <cough splutter cough???> new items, perhaps that would change with maxxed quirks in enhanced rage and punishing blow. I just wish that Brad would, for once, do some tests on his code himself before releasing it, rather than relying on speculation from cob noobs, retired players and ppl trying to just up their post count.

And Brad have you figured out a role for the Barb yet?

Jay

[Fix]

Only thing uber about haste that I've found is I'm losing uber stats. Why don't you listen to level 70 barbs like Jay? Brad was concerned that we were soloing lairs. The lairs that were soloed can be soloed anyway and by other classes as well. It just takes longer. Elessar was concerned that with the 70 level gear and haste we could solo RG.
Well if some dumb hasted barb wants to hack at RG for a few hours let them. I would never do it. Ask Jay and Crusher how they like their new gear.

Brad thinks barbs are boring because one or two players who don't like playing their barbs say so. Well they aren't boring. It takes alot of concentration to zerk in a party and not lose your weapon or kill a friendly. If Brad uses that as an excuse to make useless abilities on barbs, which may be fun or show offy but doesn't enhance the very weak barb class any, then that will be wrong.

People don't make big barbs because, like Crusher says, they don't do the damage and have no defense. It's that in between time between 30 and 60 that costs the game it's barbs. There would be alot more big barbs if the medium size barbs didn't get disgusted and quit the second they hit nameless land. Nameless land is all about gear and experience and there is no gear for these barbs at a reasonable level. And even the albron fur, when you finally get big enough, is very dissapointing considering the long wait for it.

Fix

[Darge]

Originally posted by Suggs
I just wish that Brad would, for once, do some tests on his code himself before releasing it, rather than relying on speculation from cob noobs, retired players and ppl trying to just up their post count.

I wish he would have also, because then he'd have known not to put haste in for a few weeks.

More skill ideas!

1: A combination skill with two parts to it. Can only have one active at a time, and once activated, cannot switch to the other skill until 5 rounds have passed.

Hatred: The barbarian's fury becomes fueled by pain. Once this skill is activated, every round after an initial 5 rounds, the barbarian's damage increases by 1%, until it reaches 20% boost. For example, a barb is in a zoo of 10 enemies, and it takes him 3 rounds to kill each one. On the 3rd round against crit #2 (crit #1 having been killed in rounds 1-3) the barbarian receives his first boost, giving him 101% damage. By the time the barbarian reaches round 2 of crit #9, he is at 120% damage and all subsequent round are at this damage percentage. This example assumes that A: the damage increase the barb receives is not causing enemies to die faster, B: the barbarian is taking some form of damage each round from an enemy, and C:no armor blocks or misses preventing a 3 round kill. After 5 rounds of no damage, the damage boost resets.

Instinct: The barbarian taps into his natural instincts. When activated, a barbarian at frothing may deflect attacks as if he were completely unzerked.

2: Zoo Breakers

Tremor: The barbarian's thrashings shake the earth, causing his enemies to lose their footing. Attacks all on hex, minor damage, chance to stun enemies for 1-3 rounds.

Quake: The barbarian's rage shakes the ground. Attacks all on hex, medium damage, prones all enemies it connects on.

3: Battle to battle

Impale: The barbarian shoves his weapon through his enemy. Severe damage, only works against lightly armored enemies, chance to stun on connect.

Throw: The barbarian grabs his enemy by the throat and tosses them violently. Minor damage, prones 2 hexes. If proned into a wall, damage is severe.

Pounce: Unleashing his animalistic nature, the barbarian leaps at his enemies, feet first. Standard jumpkick followed by a standard #arg command within one action.

[Crusher]

Then we still have the problem. Barbs don't do damage and still have no defense.

[Poldarn]

just quoting idea's from wow...


Retalliation. stacks with other buffs... 30 max swings retaliated, in 18 seconds.

Sweeping Blows. Stacks with other buffs... 5 swings at an enemy, will hit a single nearby enemy.(for example within 1 hex or on hex)

something that should have been done LONG ago...

some sort of "offensive" shout. making enemies(note, i didnt say ENEMY) run, or be stunned for a brief time, or lose attack power.

Cleave. Attacks two enemies at once.

my own idea.

Deafening Roar. makes enemies jump a hex in a random direction. Like push, except a AoE effect. obviously, wouldnt affect high end lairs.

[Tranquil]

How about at lvl 51 or 55 barbs get a chance to make 6-8 swings in a round? Some kind of advanced fury. Obviously to be kept out of cob.

[Brad]

Hmm some creative ideas here guys, thanks.

[Brad]

I'm thinking along these lines of about 3 new abilities (i like some of the ones in this thread), which will give the barb some choices in combat (as in variety). Hopefully one of those will be party friendly.

I think i'll put them in, let players give me some feedback, and go from there. We can try a few things out.

My goals are ( as stated )

1) Remove the monotony of the class, to encourage more to try and play the class.
2) Assist any of the remaining higher end issues ( though quirks have already played a big impact here )
3) Do this without cobrahnizing the barbs again.

Not easy goals to achieve, but as long as we all cooperate and continue to provide this great feedback ( as well as my new handy dandy logging ), we will be fine.

Thanks,
brad

[Coral]

Eat corpse: Allow barb to gain some temp ability based on corpse. If psi user, temp abs, if fighter, temp ES, something like that...
Hork: Allow barb to search corpses and extract more loot than normal (random amount), higher chance of decent treasure drops

[Tranquil]

I and many other people dont find the barb boring, brad. Unbalanced in nameless? sure, but not boring.

[Tirith]

Tranq, you are posting way too much on this subject which you have no idea about. You play a lvl 18 barb in cob, you don't know anything about high end barbs, Barbs at your size in cob are fine, This discussion is about lvl 30+ barbs in Nameless Land.