A lair crit idea,

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max|pic
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by max|pic »

ok, heres what i suggest, i got to tired to read every line of everyone, was boring, but anyway
the seperate alt has been mentioned before and it wasnt payed attention to really by brad. the reason is because of cost reasons and time
A great idea would be if the person coming to lair that isnt the 1st one in lair isnt within 20 lvls of the next, say a lvl 40 is inlair solo'ing it, and a lvl 15 comes up
it automaticly teleports him to portals.
20 lvl requirement from people in lair.
this way the lvl 50s can go kill their crap and the 20s can do whatever they do
this of course wouldnt work in nl lairs or even in cob, but it would work in nork lairs.
the problem with lvl to hit lairs is not all of the higher lvls have lower lvl characters.
i personally fatedrr'ed every crit except for my fm.
The little quest things would just be annoying and everyone would be mad

here is what brad could do for groups -

the only way u will really get the groups back into nork is by megalairs.
for example now that reggies have a 18 lvl requirement and if there was the 20 lvl teleport thing in effect, 2 lvl 30s could easily kill still.
The only lairs in nork that its better to have a group with is wardens and the random megalairs =-p
Lvl 50 crits usually kill lairs for fun to tell the truth. Ive killed many reggies, ect.for nothing but fun.
Since there hasnt been a TRUE megalair in a long time most people just take out their thurst for blood against the helpless little nork lairs.
The n-11 idea might work if u make the other lairs lvl required and having a entire set of crits in some area for higher lvls.

Another possibility to help stop people is make the group as a whole have 30 seconds to get into lair and then it locks up and noone can tp -twig in or out untill gear has been picked up. This prevents slith from being carried to some lvl 5 and prevents a 50+ form doing all but a notch and then calling someone in.
This has its problems though like what if someone dies
But thats brad's job to find a way around it if he uses this

anyway, im done, sorry it took so long =-p
Last edited by max|pic on Thu May 05, 2005 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doro
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Doro »

Originally posted by Doro
Once lair has been nuked by a large player, only a player of a lower level can trigger and enter it.
OR at least 5 levels lower

Or 10 levels lower

etc

Don't know why I didn't think of that before!
Last edited by Doro on Fri May 06, 2005 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
ho

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Doro
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Doro »

N-11 seems the best idea ho ho.

I am just about done with this thread now.

I will back off and save the best ideas for another time.
Last edited by Doro on Fri May 06, 2005 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
ho

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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Doro »

The game mechanics allowed for class control to enter certain areas.
(thief areas etc).

How about recognising the class and size of a player and allowing them to INVITE otehrs to join in their lair?

So . . . psi user lvl 20 arrives at lair, lair GEAR is dictated by that class and size (drops appropriate for lvl 20). player then invites a lvl 55 stick into lair and lair spawns at an appropriate size to challenge the lvl 55 stick. (Watch out the smaller lvl 20!).
Last edited by Doro on Fri May 06, 2005 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
ho

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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Crusher »

Torch, don't ruin the fun. Listen to what we are saying for anti-farming techniques. As Doro's throwing out ideas, I came up with one that I think would work great, but that's me.

Doro, what if the lvl 20 can just run away from the lair while the lvl 55 kills? What happened to parties? :P Give it an option where people CAN solo it as a challenge, but a party can kill it without it being a pushover.
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Doro
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Doro »

I was giving basics, you want details?

Lvl 20 is prevented from running away somehow.
Parties may be invited of course, but the crit when trigged (somehow) always matches the largest sized player in lair at time of trigger. No one may enter or leave until lair crit dies or someone calls "HALT" or somesuch like Juntes (or unless whole party dies ho ho).
Last edited by Doro on Fri May 06, 2005 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
ho

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Post by Darge »

or just leave things the way they are and add something for higher enders, i dont want 50 billion protocols i have to follow to kill a frickin lair. If you make a certain lair only killable in nork 2 or three times, they can only farm said lair so much, till its not possible anymore.
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Doro »

He has asked for ideas, we are providing them and being constructive, how about your ideas?
ho

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Darge
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Post by Darge »

ive given my idea, make lairs only killable in nork a certain ammount of times by one account in a week. After that point its no longer damagable. My other idea was for a high end class specific lair based on who gets kill shot. I guess it might not hurt to read back through the topic huh?
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Crusher »

High levels wanted on the first hunts will then be forcefully declined to come on the next hunts for the next week because they can't even hurt it. That might be fun?

Class specific lair? You mean like Barbs can only kill the Barb lair? Where's the strategy.

Basing who gets what on a lair through KS is rather pointless, too many accidents can and will happen. As I said, all it will do is lead a bunch of flaming heads.
Last edited by Crusher on Fri May 06, 2005 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stormwind »

Leave the regen times alone. They are fine.

All the Mega players have more than earned the right to go smack a lair down if they want to. Plenty of us have had our heads handed to us by those guys at one point or another and it just feels good to get even.

I think the best thing to do to resolve the issue of lairs not being home is to make quests that will spawn them regardless. Similar to a questor in cob, but without 1 item being required for everyone of those lairs. Make it interesting.

Here is an example:

Uther lair. There is a "proper" way to enter his lair without sneaking in with an MT. Perhaps have an NPC who when brought the items needed to pass the wards, will spawn uther for you if he is not already home. Then much like the Adjuticon quest, anyone in your party can then JOIN the hunt and be brought to the entrance of the lair. Then the group that spawned him will have rights to him. I think this is fair, forces people to at least sometimes go through the original motions that were intended to gain entry to the lair and guarantees that if you go through all the work to get in there the legit way, you earn the right to fight him.

All other lairs have similar components or they could be devised. I have suggestions for other "mini-quests" to spawn lairs if Brad would like them.

And leave N-11 alone, I like it just the way it is thank you ;-)

Make a -12 or something and throw all the lair crits into one room together for kicks.
Put em in a party togther and teach bresh and reggie to PWH <g>
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Pol »

just a thought, based in part on another game i play.
Some items, if you already have 1 or a certain number of them, just won't let you pick the item up with certain missions or quests. Could see that being complained about by bigger crits farming for little crits, but maybe also an encouragement to get your little crit big enough to do the job. Obviously, for things like robes it'd be more than 1 per character, but with weapons etc, it wouldn't need to be
might well be a programmng nightmare though and i'm sure many will think it'd be unplayable, but it really isn't, just a little more challenging at times

done rambling
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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Brad »

Leaving everything it is, is saying that we can't create anything BETTER than what we have

We won't have perfect, but I'm sure there is better.

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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Necron99 »

Hail!

Ok, I mostly lurk, with a few comments here and there. In keeping with Brad's request to comment on the options in his original post:

1) Do nothing
This works for me. Honestly, I have not seen a problem. Every so often, our guild gets together and runs the Nork lairs. The lairs are usually available in one alt or another...often times both. In Aleria and Cob, it is pretty much the same. Sure, sometimes the lair crit is dead, but hey, it's a multiplayer game <G>. There seems to be a lot of fighting over NL lairs, but it is my understanding that comments are being solicited for primarily Nork/Aleria/Cob lairs (lower level).

2) Randomly make lair crits restricted to their level range ( 25% chance on spawn or something )
I can take this one or leave it. If we have a group to do a lair for gear, and the lair had spawned making it impossible for the group's big hitters to participate, we would most likely gather up a larger group of smaller crits, supported by high lvl Healers and Ments and take a go at the lair again. One thing I would like to point out; if a level restricted lair crit randomly spawns, then DP recovery could be quite difficult. This would be especially true for lairs that require items (pinks, eyes) to enter.

3) Make spawn quests where you can spawn a level restricted crit if your in the right level range
This works for me as well. The idea/change is additive to the game and does not restrict the actions of existing (mostly paying) players.

4) Make new lairs in the same areas, with level restricted crits.
Who can't like this one? Double the lairs to farm <VEG>. Honestly, this sounds like a lot of work and it really would be a double farm kinda gig. Most, if not all, of the lvl 50+ lair stompers I know have lvl 20 and 30 crits as well. I can just about hear it now "Hey Bro, let's do 'em both!".

Overall, assuming that there must be a real lair problem that I can't see, I personnally prefer option #3. It takes nothing away from the current game, yet allows smaller/newer players the ability to guarentee a lair experience upon completion of a quest.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

Kind Regards...Necron.

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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by lalasushi »

the best idea ive heard here is making a hall in n11 with equivalent settings of each lair and questing to get access to this area, perhaps a quest or lvl requirement, and offer the same benefit for larger players gear wise and lair owning and simply restrict overpowering levels into certain lairs.

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Post by Krom »

The main problem i see is the trivialization of the game at lower lvls. I remember when I used to stack ih outside the vt rd lair and charge in with my fatepools bs praying that the rd wouldnt prone me into a wall for a oneshot eat. That was a lot of fun. It took a lot of work to get to cob and once you were there hunting timmy caves in nork gear hoping for a yellow robe to appear on screen was dangerous and fun. I would like to see a return to this type of gaming. In the current drak this is something only the very high end players get to enjoy. Yes I know that a player can still choose to play that way, but the sense of accomplishment is reduced when a player who truely earned thier gear sees a small player running around in better gear that was killed for them by a high end friend.

I am by no means suggesting that high end players shouldnt be able to walk in and destroy any lair they like. Thats part of the fun of drak too, walking into what was once a fearsome lair and tossing it around like rag doll.

How can we breathe life back into the lowend portion of the game without taking it away from players who have earned thier right to dominate the low end segments? I think that several ideas here would work well if tweaked just a little bit.

I would like to see lairs restrict the lvl range that can enter the lair at any given time. By this i mean that if a lvl 10 was the first into the lair then lvl 7-13 could enter the lair. If a lvl 20 entered the lair first then lv 24-17 could enter the lair. I chose these numbers arbitrarily so they are not perfect. Make the gear instadrop so it cannot be removed from the lair without being picked up. If gear is left on the floor when a party leaves, it ties to the last person who leaves the lair. This way if a lvl 24-17 group kill the lair a lvl 10 doesnt wander in and grab the goods. If the lvl 10 wants that gear they can get together a group of the appropriate size and go kill the lair. If a lvl 70 wants to go kill the wardens they still can, but a lvl 20 cant get the reward. Fun roleplaying messages can be added to notify you if you cannot enter the lair.

As to lair availability I like the idea of expanding on the rock spawning method currently in use in cob. An npc that causes the spawn of a lair could be put in that accepts certain rare items only from certain lvl characters. for example the item that a lvl 10 uses to spawm lairs might come from the prisons and be roughly as rare as a naga statue. A lvl 55 could not use the lvl 10 item to spawn lairs. The lvl 55 might find thier rare in the decaying land swamps. When the lair is spwaned it triggers the lair to only allow entry by players in the lvl range of the person who spawned the lair. There would need to be a time limit in which the lair would need to be engaged or the lair would despawn. This would enable a guild to have a guild hunt night where something was actually home. It would also allow a player to plan ahead and get a group arranged to kill a lair and not have it yanked out from under them.

As to lair camping, lair regens should be made random within a maximum and minimum time frame like 6-10 hours. If more than one person is in the lair at the time of respawn all players in the lair are booted to the restore spot and the first person to enter the lair keys it to thier lvl.

On a slightly different note, i think that nl should be lvl restricted as well. The ease of growth at low lvls there completely trivializes nork, aleria and cob. Those segments deserve to be more than a place to buy ihs and coin. Somewhere between 30 and 35 seems good to me. Quick growth from there to mormar doesnt remove the utility of other segments.

Feel free to criticize and poke holes. Sorry for the length of the post

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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Doro »

I like them, nothing to pokes holes in!
It seems we are generally moving in the same direction.
ho

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Replying to Topic 'A lair crit idea,'

Post by Torch »

Crusher, I'm not trying to ruin the fun at all... all I'm saying is no matter what is done lairs will be farmed. Drak is not a perfect community, we have quite a few greedy people who farm a lair and dont give anyone else a chance to experience it... There will still be guilds who want certain gear before anyone else... There have been alot of great ideas... but they all seem like more of a temporary fix. People will find new ways to farm lairs then we'll be in this position all over again.

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Post by Doro »

Here is one idea that I have been mulling over for a little while . . .

A gauntlet of NPC's, each one getting progressively harder as you progress thru the rooms.

An opportune thread to post it has arrived, detail follows.

Each NPC is designed to fight and drop gear for a particular player size,
only that player size may attack it
e.g.
NPC #1 for players lvl 1-10
NPC #2 for players lvl 11-20
etc

Larger players will only see a grey tagged NPC that is NOT able to be attacked.
Each NPC will drop gear only for the appropriate size of crit.
Larger players are able to passwall or thru door to next part of gauntlet; smaller ones will get a dropped key to open a door to next NPC.

Smaller players will see a grey tag NPC as they progress thru gauntlet and NPCs will not attack the smaller players.

The party in action . . .

Guilds will have members of all sizes (one imagines).
They prep at the first NPC, smallest member of party kills as they are the only one that sees red NPC.
Mission accomplished, over to you bigger players for NPC #2 etc.
If a smaller player can kill their equal and opposite NPC, so should the largest member of the party, am I right?
Imagine the embarrassment at the smaller player beating their NPC and the larger one failing (what a jolly jape)!

So rewards are suited to each player or players of a particular level, the big sticks get the challenge of a larger lair crit to kill,
- - - - - - - - - -

The foreseen problems . . .

Healer lvl 55 buffs the smaller players so they can't be killed . . .
NPC siphons all prots at start of match and perma stuns all larger players in lair - all they can do is watch.

More than one lvl 10 player in party . . .
NPC multiplies to match the same number of opponents.

Areas spells will kill smaller players in bigger lairs . . .
No area spells allowed, not even Powerword, psi types to go into traditional clicking mode.
Therefore perhaps, many healers required for one lair? - dunno about that one.

What rewards for completion of gauntlet?
Gauntlet decided by the highest player in party, e.g. lvl 30 is highest player, then lvl 30 NPC is considered the end of the gauntlet.
+1 bonus point to all members.

Some fancy maths - number of members of party - with reference to max size NPC of last gauntlet NPC completed.
To ultimately end up with a "high score table" that we all miss, showing;
Slot names, and a derived score, which others then have to beat for a weekly/monthly reward from our loveable sysops
(rewards to suit the achievement).

- - - - - - - - -

The point of it all?

Don't ask me, I just make them up!

BUT

It would get the larger players "begging" the smaller ones to help them which is a twist, just to they can get to the top of the "score table" perhaps?

PS Sorry Brad I have gone off at a tangent again.


edit:typos
Last edited by Doro on Fri May 06, 2005 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ho

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Post by PieterPost »

Brad, please read Krom's post over and over and implement the lot of it <G> I think coding wise it's very much in line with the rest of the game as we know it (that is, not very hard for you to implement), and it constitutes great improvements.

Especially the level req for NL really needs to be put into place. Small'ns race through skills and levels while not particularly contributing a whole lot to parties. For players of any size NL is mostly a rocket ride to the caps. Players seem to cap out and leave every day for lack of content. I reckon we won't see any new content for a while yet as NL still needs tweaking. I guess what it boils down to is with the insane progress crits can make in NL, you just haven't given yourself a whole lot of time to provide new content before people cap out. At the end of the day Drak's future is on the line.

Just my ranting.

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Post by max|pic »

well, just to state, the rocks dropping in nl would be stupid becuase of not everyone has nl
and nl being lvl restricted wont happen because there would be way to many people pissed off
i personally like to take my lvl 18s to nl, i paid the 50$
maybe after its the 20$ it will eventually be or something u have to be lvl 30 to pay the 20$, but as far as lvl requirement for nl and poeple that paid the money, i know personally i would be very mad and prob leave the game

taking something from what stormwind said
All the Mega players have more than earned the right to go smack a lair down if they want to
its just the same as ability to be in nl
i know afew lvl 18s and 19s that have nl and cant do anything
and when we originally got there our smaller lvls couldnt do anything
we have earned the gear and the experience needed to do it, so why take it away?

and as far as the lairs having the lvl of the person that enters, a lvl 50 going to go get a slicer ls so he can have a proner on banditlord doesnt want to kill alvl 50 slicer


no idea will really work to well because high lvls will have to get dp's and someone will always find a way to cheat the system.

i actually think you could make a 1 time free of like 20$ for a alt 3 and 5th character slot
where the 5th character slot starts out in alt 3 and noone not started in alt 3
add afew areas so they can exp from lvl 16-25 or so and just have it be like its own world that the 5th slot cant exit
that way people have their partying back
its basicly like a restart of the game, no high lvl gear and stuff, only knowledge
when people get 18 or 19, time to go kill reggie in parties of like 10+
i think i would probably pay it, also maybe make the skilling like IEN so u can gain from lairs again and harder areas.
but this gives all the people that want to go back and start fresh and have fun again the ability
while at the same time it preserves drakkar as it is and lets people do as they please
Last edited by max|pic on Fri May 06, 2005 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gothmog »

i think the best idea ive heard is to make the pillars down in -11 have a portal that will transport any crit lvl 40 or above to a gauntlet of sorts and have all large nork lairs be there and drop the gear heck make one in aleria also and cob. that would do it.
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Post by Stormwind »

I would be careful with the guantlet idea. While on the one hand it could be fun, on the other it could be another source for lair farmers to scoop up even more gear to dump on newbies. If you were to implement some sort of gauntlet, I would suggest eliminating the gear completely and setting up other random drops. Perhaps pots, yp's, etc. Things that larger players would value for their own use and not just to sell or hand out.

Krom's idea was excellent. Tying the level of the character into the item needed to spawn was great.
Last edited by Stormwind on Sat May 07, 2005 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ZhouYu »

Originally posted by Stormwind


I would be careful with the gauntlet idea. While on the one hand it could be fun, on the other it could be another source for lair farmers to scoop up even more gear to dump on newbies. If you were to implement some sort of gauntlet, I would suggest eliminating the gear completely and setting up other random drops. Perhaps pots, yp's, etc. Things that larger players would value for their own use and not just to sell or hand out.
I think a lair of pot drops is a sweet idea. Would the low level ones still drop some extremely rarely?

What about having a gauntlet for pot, coin, and gem drops, a gauntlet for skill, and a gauntlet for exp?
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Post by Darge »

i think someone mentioned having the gauntlet lairs just drop their gear. Would be awkward for slith and reggie, but could just have these lairs far enough away from the previous room or a safe spot so that if you had someone partied with you they couldnt hear the death scream, and thus allowing a way for smaller crits to get reggies and slith eyes from gauntlet.

and zhouyu, why not just have a gauntlet that magically makes you lvl 55/30? -.-
Last edited by Darge on Sat May 07, 2005 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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