being in a guild

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cyclone
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being in a guild

Post by cyclone » Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:15 am

i have been founder and leader of the foa guild for many years
but the one thing that gets me is these newer ppl dont even give a hoot about guilds anymore. granted i dont get much time to play anymore due to real life getting in the way but it gets me down when i start playing again only to find out that this member that just barely joined my guild is not only leaving my guild but has already detagged and became tagged by another guild.
you know back when i started and created my guild being in a guild meant you were part of a family in the game. if your guild was small and didnt have alot of pps, you didnt jump out only to find another guild you did your part to help make your guild grow.
but now it seems like a newer players are only in it for the gear or power growing.
i know its not just my guild that has experienced this.
i play this game to have fun and part of my fun is seeing ppl in my guild grow and such and doing what i can in the little bit of time that im on to help ppl out.

thats all i have to say for now
cyclone___foa
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cyclone
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Post by cyclone » Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:52 am

forgot to put please reply

Warpath
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Post by Warpath » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:10 am

I agree with you, it's sad really. I join a guild to make friends and have fun, not to get gear and grow rapidly in size. Unfotunatly many players now a days only join for that reason and if the current guild they are in can't get them what they think they need they bail and join another. Anyways not much you can really do about it I guess.

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PieterPost
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Post by PieterPost » Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:04 pm

While I agree that some of the newer people don't really seem to grasp what being in a guild is all about at the end of day, I for one am very happy to see that there are a lot of exceptions to this rule too.
About a month ago I started OWL with a few friends, and we've been doing great since. We started out with 3 (and a dummy account for the tag), and have doubled in size since. Apping is even locked at the moment because we don't want to grow too fast and want to spend some time together first. For OWL's future I envision a small group of tight knit people, and sofar things are really working out.
So yes, sadly the community seems to have somewhat degraded over the past few years, but if you try hard you can still put a nice bunch of fellas together! Or, as a guildie put it:

Friends are like rocks,
you can find them anywhere
True friends are like diamonds,
precious and rare


Nemesis

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art1
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Post by art1 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:06 pm

dont blame the guild members, blame the guild leader. if you dont spend enough time with your guild due to different circumstances, thats your problem. its not the members job to understand why you cant spend time online anymore. look at your role as the guild leader besides just the tag of being one, and see what you can do to bring the guild up. excuses just dont cut it anymore. guild leader should take some time out of his/her day to help with the guild. otherwise step down.
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Vsari
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Post by Vsari » Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:55 pm

As slow as progression can get in this game I can understand why some people want to be in guilds for that reason. If you dont want people like this in your guild you can either not recruit them or just plain kick them.

Braindead
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Post by Braindead » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:06 pm

I have to agree with Art. If there is a problem with members, it is up to the one's who allow them in in the first place. I've had a couple problems with guilds and whatnot, but I consider them good guilds and they know what they want.
And as for slow progression, if you can handle a little tedium, progression is pretty fast.

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vedwed
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Post by vedwed » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:31 pm

Hey it's obvious that you're mad cause I left the guild, but I will tell ya a few things.
For one I didn't join FOA to grow big and get gear! I joined FOA in order to hunt and have fun with a guild. Take a good look at FOA, no meetings, no hunts, not many members ever on, and the ones I see on now are getting geared more so by other guilds or on their own.

Does this mean your guild sucks? no it means it wasnt what it cracked up to be, and it wasnt what I wanted in a playing experience.

Sorry for the unpleseant thought's you may have, but FOA was on the cut list posted in the forums, and when I asked around, to the few mwmbers online anymore, I was told prolly gonna happen. But the main reason is that I want to be a part of an ACTIVE guild that does things together as a team


EDIT**
I wouldnt call 1 reggie hunt milkin you guys for gear then leaving! ;(
Last edited by vedwed on Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cyclone
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Post by cyclone » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:10 pm

chaotix that post wasnt meant towards you and no im not mad that you left the guild
i was just stating things i see going on with my guild and other guilds too in response to our guild being on the list one we were on the list at the beginning 2 months ago even though we met the reqs i sent an email to mars and he told me we have 6 paid accts which more than meets the reqs and that if we had the min when they put us on the list then he must have misread

Tobranna
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Post by Tobranna » Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:09 pm

Cyclone,

Nothing that I'm about to say is intended to be a personal attack against you. I owe you a great deal because you're the reason I'm still in Drak, despite my not joining FOA way back when.

I fully agree there is a loyalty problem in the guilds of Drakkar, but I also think we, as players in general, contribute to this problem. I find several contributing factors. The first being gear. When someone joins a guild the guild tends to run out and get every piece of gear the new member 'needs' (or can wear) so they'll be happy and prepared for upcoming hunts. On the flipside, in a larger guild (speaking from what I've heard here) higher end gear is done by size or list, which means you may have to wait. Some people go outside their guild for this reason, get the gear and wind up joining the people that helped them. I've seen it happen.

IMHO, Guilds should be more about friendships than gear. People seem to want to go where the fastest progression is and whatever guild they feel can offer them this is the one they gravitate toward. As they grow and, hopefully, learn a bit more, they want some new and often elusive 'status' so they move on. One of the things I most like about Drak is that we have a diverse population, size and personality wise. You never know where that new friend will be found. :)

I feel that active guilds will always be the most successful ones. Meetings are essential but more importantly there needs to be a commited group with the same goals of growing together, as a team. If there's no one to hunt with, it's hard. If, for whatever reason, the leader (s) can't be around as much as they'd like, there should always be someone in charge. A 'go-to' person that can deal with any issues which arise. Leaving a guild in the hands of whoever's willing may not be the best for the guild members in the long run.

Last, but certianly not least, if you're going to preach, preach FUN above all else. Too many give the message out that size is what's important. It's not. Drak is full of mindless drudgery (skilling), and it's a much easier journey to make with friends.

Personally, because I've done it before, I'd never lead a guild in any game. It's not worth the hassle to me. Kudos to those of you who do without seeking power over others. It's not an easy job and often times thankless too.

Maybe it's time for you and/or others facing the same frustrations, to step back and take a look at what it is you want from your guild/guildmates and try to come up with ways to achieve your goals.

Remember, not all of us run away to greener pastures when the going gets tough ;) Right Moe? I sincerly hope you and maybe others get some good ideas or help from this thread. Good luck!


Tobish

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Roland
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Post by Roland » Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:00 am

'tis a tough subject really.....
What makes a good guild....and what do people expect and want from a guild ?

Upon some ponderance, the first thing to come to my mind is that when people join a guild, to become better and closer friends with guildies, they all have one thing in common...they both enjoy playing Drakkar, and want to be around others who enjoy the game as much as they do. Heck, if people just wanted to join a guild solely for the purpose of JUST having more friends, they'd just goto a random Yahoo chatroom. People want more than just friends, they want friends that play Drak, and friends to play Drak with. Imho, overall, Drak is the single thing that holds most guilds together. Sounds dumb, but..remove Drak, and I'd bet within 6 months all Drak Guild Mirc channels would be a vast wasteland.

One reason guilds tend to gear their new recruits quickly, is to 'sorta' catch them up with the current group, so they can survive hunts with the group as a whole (is pointless to make a big deal about a Bresh hunt, when the guild has surpassed the challenge that lair provides.)

Speaking from personal experience, back on IEN, it was alot easier to get a 'good' guild of people together. Simply because people were alot closer in size. With people mostly all the same size in a guild, it was alot of fun watching everyone grow about the same pace, and as a guild do something you couldn't do before. It showed progress and success for the guilds. The last frontier where that can really happen is in NL/DL, simply cause in almost every guild, there's always 1 or 2 people that can easily solo every Nork/Alerian/Cob lair (nearly) or someone that can jump onto a bigger crit to rescue the guild from a hunt gone bad, with smaller crits. Back in the day, that wasn't much of an option. Which also brings upon the mindset of many people, " Why let someone get eaten by Mama or lose 20-50 hps on a Chipper hunt, when you have someone in guild that can do it 100% risk-free?".

Imho, one of the toughest problems in building a guild these days, is getting a group of people together, who will party together day-in-day-out, and all be there, 3 months from now, and all be of comparative size, so everyone can hunt in relatively the same places. Over a 2 month period, some crits grow rapidly, others disappear from game. The growth and disappearances creates 'gaps' within a guild. Suppose a guild makes an objective to put together a group of 8 guild-only friends to hunt and succeed in NL, what happens 3 months down the line, when 2 members fall way behind, another 2 go AWOL..that leaves 4 from the initial group to attempt to attain the initial goal, which isn't all that great of a party for NL. So their only answer is to recruit more people, but then the people they recruit are much smaller and need growth, to fit in with rest of group. It just isn't as easy as it used to be. Back on IEN...lvl 18 was considered BIG, but a lvl 15 crit would still be within the size range, to hunt with the lvl 18 crit , and able to successfully help on things that the bigger crit found challenging.

Imho, the #1 thing people in a guild need to do, is continue playing Drak, and take the time to ask someone that shares the same tag, to party...quite often people wanna party with someone, but get tired of asking all the time. Sometimes it is just nice to be asked to hunt with someone, it shows friendship, cause if 1 person asks all the time, they wonder to themselves if they are , in fact, being a nuisance to the person they continuously ask. Sometimes people are in the mood to lead, other times they are tired and just wanna follow.
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PieterPost
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Post by PieterPost » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:03 pm

You hit the nail on the head Rolly :)

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helstorm
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Post by helstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:30 pm

tho all of what yall have said is true
none of it really applies to the membership turnover in foa
was due to a lack of numbers and a tendency for exclusion from help
from outside guilds several moved on because they wanted to hunt nl
and seemed to beleive they had to move on to do so cant count how many times ive heard someone ask for help in the sf and heard the reply well why doesnt your guild get it for you well that is not always posible and i dont think that anyone has left
foa with any bad feelings and tho i can understand their need i still wished
that personal loyalttys coulda held out as our number rarely droped below 10 as some went new ones came an if all held on we would be well at 30 strong
but in general what im saying is that if the lines beween guilds was
a little more open then thew smaller guy mite have more of a chance

In the end tho its never what you had
Its what you did that makes an impact

JC HELSTORM aka BEGAWOLF/HOINE

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Stormwind
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Post by Stormwind » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:59 am

There are many "types" of guilds throughout online games. Some are friendship/family driven, others are driven to excel in the game and try to be first in everything. Each is looking for a different kind of player.

For players joining a guild, know up front what YOU want from a guild and know what kind of a commitment you can give to that guild. Be up front with them and that will save you a lot of problems. Check out the guilds website, find out their hunt days are and the general times their members are online. Know if you can reasonably be there when other members are on.

For Guilds, make it plain to petitioning members how your guild functions and what your group considers important. If your guild has a high turnover, the guild itself is doing something wrong and needs to stop recruiting and look inward to resolve the problem. Recruiting more members at that point will likely only increase your problems and cause the guild to self destruct. It's better to resolve the internal issues first and then slowly recruit people. Anyone who really wants to get your tag will wait till you're ready, since they'll already be hunting with you anyway.

There are many ways to judge the success of a guild, but all good guilds take effort and teamwork.
"Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you."

helstorm
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Post by helstorm » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:45 pm

normally stormwind i would agree with you if u have a high turn over its the management to blame but still not the case for foa mostly player think foa is what the want and is what they want till they hit around lvl 20 21 cob sized id say on the avg
when they have a change of mind but thats all it is is a change of view and i can understand on most lol personally i cant even set up a good hunt for myself
being a norkbound thief hehe <pokes at stormwind> and you got my favorite bait on ur team now <smiles>> if my bro jho likes wolf i know yall havin it goin on

an as far as turn over i dont mind they come and go as long as their honest hard working and have the cohonneys to speak their mind and the decency not to hinder
others from doing the same to me i dont see tags i see people my buds some i just met an some i been playing this game with for the last 6 or 7 yrs i quit counting.

and to all of them i want to say throw a nother barb on the fire draggys liable to get hungry .. love you all :p
jC Helstorm aka Begawolf

foa guild home page http://www.geocities.com/foahp/
begawolfs sanctuary in the dark http://users.aol.com/helstorm/

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LadyKris
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Post by LadyKris » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:05 am

That was all just too much for me to read and I don't want to repeat things that have been said here already. What I did read of the replys and posts pretty much seems to cover the topic in any case. So why did I reply at all ? I have no idea it's early give me a break!
Lost again , oh well MT back to the beginning.

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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:57 pm

In my opinion:

A 'family style' of guild is inherently different from a 'player's guild' ... a family could meet only on holidays and go on for generations. Ooo and ahhh over the new babies ... discus traffic to the reunion ... and how do you like that new car?

Players want to play. Goals and 'movememnt' towards them are necessary .. what do you mean the baby needs to be fed?! We've got a skill party!

of course, most guilds have people of both 'sorts' ... and aren't we all a bit schizo anyway?

lalasushi
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Post by lalasushi » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:05 pm

this trend in "starter guilds", no insult intended, has been going on a long time, many people grow to the potential of a guild and then leave it. The guilds with the most success/longevity become the most desireable like RAGE, JIHAD, and the alliance/alliances. This trend has continued all througout NL/DL and has led to people switching groups quite often to look for the bigger and better. Oh, one group falls behind, detagg and join the other! seems to be the way of things.... kinda sad, makes drakkar look like a game of 10 year olds without the patience to stick it out in 1 guild. And for all of u who have "flip flopped" with ur guild tags u know that it doesnt end and each guild becomes temporary.

In the end, it leads to a constantly changing guild system and balance of power based on player preference and perception. Is that good or bad? i dont know.

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