what has happened to ppl in this game?

[funns]

does no 1 in this game know how to play fair with other ppl anymore? i been trying to come back and actually make a new character and ive already ran into more ettiquette breakers that should know better than i use to in a month, in the past 2 days. kinda hard to come back to a game when its lost all sense of ettiquette

[Anarion]

Well it used to be if u were rude or annoying or something like that you might get killed, but that doesn't happen anymore (kinda kept the playing #s small anyway). And for a while after pking was outlawed this niceness stayed, but it slowly dwindled. I am not saying that pking should be reintroduced just guessing the reasons.

[funns]

nah now adays theres alot of new players who got big fast maybe just ppl from ien and before should be able to pk idiots?

[Drdrunk]

fear is what kept people in-line on ien, as well as a smaller tight knit community.

they feared being stripped after being killed, that's gone and so is ettiquette.

[Roland]

I think another factor is that back on IEN, when majority of playerbase was alot smaller in size, you needed to be nice to people, so that they'd help you on hunts. Whereas now, most things people need in the foreseeable future (Nork, Aleria, and Cob), are easily solo'd or sold outright for gold, thus meaning the player only needs to be nice to 1 or 2 people. Back then, you'd need 10+ crits for Lori, SoB, Wardens and whatnot, so you'd have to be nice to at least 30 people, so that a party of people that wouldn't mind helping on your hunt, would wanna .

Plus back then, only 1 or 2 lairs were seen acceptable as being sold (Kaldor & Slith). Nowadays, tons sell lairs and don't give it a second thought. Selling lairs may seem to be a minor thing, and a timesaving thing, but it does create a ripple affect of other things happening, in the game. For one, people don't feel they really need other players as much. It causes the farming of lairs. It takes away the "I'll help you so that someday you might help me on a hunt I need" attitude, since you can flat out just pay someone some coin for something, and never owe them anything, meaning that it takes out the 'buddy system' type of attitude. It let's people bypass the learning of strategies to defeat lairs that are a true danger to them, and since they don't need the gear anymore, they grow big and then return to the lair when it is no danger to them, and the lair itself would have a VERY tough time killing them, losing the ability to coordinate their actions with that of a party, since they are so used to just bumrushing everything. Selling of lairs, also diminishes the acceptable size level considered by the community for a crit to have the gear, since the crit buying the lair is really never in any danger, whereas before the crit had to be somewhat be able to survive the entire hunt.

[Yeti]

meh, you forgot the worst thing about selling lairs to noobs

it creates a whole class of noob-tarded large players, that dont know how to run their class, and are essentially worthless in any real hunt situation


-Yeti

[Doro]

You haven't looked hard enough Funns, I met many a kind and generous newb player in N-1-4 while I was in disguise - they are out there.

Today's folks do tend toward the ignorant or downright rude and will not listen to others opinions or advice - such is the real world too, but we have no police force in Drak that is available to pull them up short. No I don't mean calling on the sysops at every oportunity for someone ground looting etc. There used to be a recognised group of folks scattered acorss the guilds who knew how to handle a miscreant <sp?>.

The will to stop bad behaviour has gone and I pity any guild looking for new members as they could be recruiting a badly behaved player without knowing it.

What is to be done?
Is it time some of the larger folk take time out from their own game and 'police' the streets, making themselves availlable to the community?

A handful of respected players could make themselves known and spend some time in SF educating the newer element into the unwritten rules of the game (and the written ones too!) - there are some already doing a good job there, but more are needed.

[Morgar]

Originally posted by Doro

What is to be done?
Is it time some of the larger folk take time out from their own game and 'police' the streets, making themselves availlable to the community?

I said the same thing not too long ago Doro and got slapped down for it. There are level 11 and 12 newbies running around with reggies, breshes, str hallys, chippers. There are floor thieves by the score and some guilds that I wouldn't give the time of day to because a few members have sullied their reputation and they don't seem to care about that.

The fault doesn't lay at the feet of the game, it doesn't lay at the feet of Brad because he has opened it up to free players. It lays at our feet. We tolerate the behavior, we equip newbies with gear far beyond their capabilities. And the end product is spoiled players who expect everything handed to them on a glowing silver platter.

There are some very nice players out there, but if you can't catch them early enough, they fall victim of the trap of "THE LARGE BORED PLAYER" who decides, why not help that newbie get a bresh shield, or a chipper or a str hally. And once the newbie has tasted the allure of the big gear, there's no turning them back.

I've helped many a new player thinking "Is this a possible candidate for my guild when they are bigger?". Only to see that same newbie that same week wearing a reggie, sporting a chipper or +6 hally or a bresh shield etc. And then that newbie gets annoyed because I refuse to get him a slicer, or get him a chipper. Or they get mad because I won't come back from cob to MT his party to uther.

If you don't like the response you're getting from people these days, do something about it. Tell your bored big friends that they really shouldn't be giving that newbie primo nork gear. Tell that newbie he's too little for it and you'll be happy to help him when he/she is a level 18 or level 20. Tell the person being rude in the steel flower that the behavior isn't appropriate. If people don't start enforcing the etiquette, then we have only ourselves to blame for the behavior of incoming new players.

- Morgar

[DukDog27]

I agree with Morgar

These days all people are out for is instant gratification. They kiss the...butts...of a few big players and those players take them under their wing and equip them with stuff way beyond their normal reach. It's like sticking a kindergartener in a suit of fullplate. Nobody can hurt it much, but it can't fight for crap.

I remember back when I had to do things on my own. I killed a griffon solo at level 13 and victory never tasted so sweet. Nowadays any foolish little player with a big friend or deep pockets can get things far greater than that.

So what can we do?

Not a damn thing...just shut our mouthes and trudge along, dragging our outdated equipment on the ground behind us. Some players around here still remember how things USED to be...like back in the IEN days when I came to love this game. And it's those few people who have unknowingly brought me back to the game.

Bottom line is...those few could still change the face of drakkar if they'd just stand up.

I'm not saying we take back the old ways on the tip of a sword, halberd or whatever your chosen instrument of doom is. All that would do is get us banned. Instead, stand up and fight back against the ridiculous requests of the deep-pocketed newb. Just the other day some freak asked me o get him a BNR, and the only thing he knew was my name and the fact that I had one. I chased him off, slinging insulting observations about his character as he fled. He hasn't bothered me since.

Besides...most of us from back on IEN make up the top class, without which there would be no toddlers in armor. Just resist and trudge along. Something's broke...but we can fix it.

And that's my rant for today.

Flame away, capitano mio!

[Morgar]

Originally posted by DukDog27

So what can we do?

Not a damn thing...just shut our mouthes and trudge along, dragging our outdated equipment on the ground behind us. Some players around here still remember how things USED to be...like back in the IEN days when I came to love this game. And it's those few people who have unknowingly brought me back to the game.

Bottom line is...those few could still change the face of drakkar if they'd just stand up.

I don't agree. There are things we can do. I will not participate in any hunt where I feel the recipienent of the gear/item is too small to come on the hunt. Its that simple. If you want chipper, you better be capable of going on that hunt and surviving it.

Its up to us larger players, and up to the mega players (a catagory in which I certainly do not fit), to be more circumspect in in what we do. The other day I helped a small mentalist obtain the items he needed for a muzi. When he finally obtained the muzi he was quite happy with it and it would have suited him fine until he gained the ability to cast IV on others at skill 12. As I explained this to him in the steel flower, another player heard the conversation and immediately handed this skill 8 mentalist an untied uzi. It was a generous gesture, but inappropriate for his level of skill. Most likely that uzi will end up lying in some lair, wasted. The following day a 9/8 mentalist sporting mama scales, uzi and chipper asked me where he should be hunting for best skill at his size. This wasn't a case of a smaller crit owner by a bigger player, this was a main crit.

If we, meaning the player community of Drakkar, provide help in line with the level of the person asking for the help instead of handing out the best gear in the game to complete newbies, we would make the game more enjoyable for everyone, ourselves and the new players.

- Morgar

[DukDog27]

Whoops...I kinda steped on my own toes up there, it was late and I was ranting.

Yeah, we have to (and have the right to) refuse to help whoever we see fit.

BUT

You have to remember that a player could have a larger crit who does the hunt legitimatly, then gives the gear to his smaller crits. I do that all the time. But really this only applies to players who've been around for a while, newbies don't hav ethe capabilities.

[Morgar]

Originally posted by DukDog27


Whoops...I kinda steped on my own toes up there, it was late and I was ranting.

Yeah, we have to (and have the right to) refuse to help whoever we see fit.

BUT

You have to remember that a player could have a larger crit who does the hunt legitimatly, then gives the gear to his smaller crits. I do that all the time. But really this only applies to players who've been around for a while, newbies don't hav ethe capabilities.

We all do that Duk. But by the same token I'd expect you not to ask newbie-ish questions in the steel flower either. It is usually fairly easy to tell the difference between the baby crit of an experience player and the baby crit of a noob.

[Ambrose]

The last time that I complained about "newbie" behavior (well .. okay BESIDES the most recent time that I was giving something away and they made me wait 15 minutes) ...

errr ... what was I going to say? Oh building my smaller accounts ... minding my own business in N-6 ... I was so hot about repeat offenders that I actually made a page ... Rats of Drakkar. I forget the address ...

Black list is not a bad thing til someone deserves to come off ...

[Bubolacteus]

>> The following day a 9/8 mentalist sporting mama scales, uzi and chipper asked me where he should be hunting for best skill at his size. This wasn't a case of a smaller crit owner by a bigger player, this was a main crit. <<

Sheesh... my 19/14 ment has an uzi, but no mamas and no chipper.... maybe i am just too big?


:zzz

[Fenrir]

Originally posted by funns


does no 1 in this game know how to play fair with other ppl anymore? i been trying to come back and actually make a new character and ive already ran into more ettiquette breakers that should know better than i use to in a month, in the past 2 days. kinda hard to come back to a game when its lost all sense of ettiquette

My problem and a few reasons for leaving was not because of all the nOOb players, but the arrogance and poor treatment from a lot of the older players in the game. Now its not all of you out there and I do have a lot of respect for you but for some reason the mentality seemed to be "I know more than you and Im bigger so I can treat you like trash"

When I started in IEN days I looked forward to coming into the game not only to play the game but to talk and listen to the vet players that were there. Came back to the game and some of these vet players were all of a sudden too good to help a nOOb player in any way except for treating them like trash and like they were dumb. I left the game again because I didnt think this was the game for me anymore with all the poor treatment of peeps on it. Im back again and hoping that the older community on here has taken the sticks out of their butts and instead of complaining and ridiculing the new players they are lending a hand to them. As I said it isnt all the older players that were like this but a good majority of them were, including ones I considered friends.

You all want to continually complain about how the new peeps are beggars and gear grabbers you only have yourselves to blame as you dont bother to help them at all anymore, but willingly chat in the open about what you have and how strong your crit is. Helping them doesnt mean give them things but at least answer their questions about items and such so they know what to expect. I know Im opening myself up to flaming from you all but its only my opinion and I feel that the same old complaints about the begging newbies is getting tired.

[Mihey]

Yeah... Most of the veteran players are too important to help the smaller players and newbies. A few of them get bored and then give a newbie a full gear... making the situation worse.

There is a large gap forming between the newbies and veterans...

Plus, the influx of new players - most from Runescape and such games, where nice people are rare; there is no community spirit that would be like the one in iEN Drakkar.

But I have to agree there are quite a few good newcomers - I enjoy talking to them...

[Dragonslayer]

Originally posted by Fenrir

myself up to flaming from you all but its only my opinion and I feel that the same old complaints about the begging newbies is getting tired.

I camp SF a bit with my ment these days (phnx tradition i guess )
I am usualy happy to answer questions, and sometimes help with blowing walls, clearing a room etc. It's just that sometimes some people come in and only ask for an item, over and over.

Thar reminds me of the lvl 13 guy asking for 5 meg in sf, i said he should ask the ones that gave him the reggies :o

[Fenrir]

I still think this game has the best community out there even with the beggars and grouchy vets lol. Tried other games like Lineage and Ragnarok, even tho they offer more in terms of content the player base and community in them is pretty bad. Drak may be old and small according to most users but you cant beat the peeps in it as well the content being one of the most rich ones Ive seen, may be small but the story and quests not only fit the game but are fleshed out in a way that makes you feel like you are actually part of the story instead of winging something just to get a good piece of gear, and I think that is just as important as how big the game is and what it has. Now all I have to do is get my pay account up and running again so I can start ending in Cob once more...hehe

[Frozboz]

Not to sidetrack this thread.. but that's a cool sig Fenrir

[Fenrir]

Thanx

[Frost]

I like Morg like to sit in SF at times. WHen i do this i like to help thouse that i can because it is my nature. The best thing we can do is give them the information or give them the link to a helpful sight with how to play at smaller levels like MoYs site.