Floor theif's

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Merlin
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Floor theif's

Post by Merlin »

A freind who does not wish to be named came to me with this.

ok, so you are aware that someone is stealing from the area you are hunting in. You shockwave, no result, firebreath,Ec nothing, so what do you do?

Ask your friendly ment to scry someome you may suspect.

Bingo, caught red handed the person in the area you were in a few seconds earlier looting.

you take your argument to the sysops, and they cant do anything at all because i wasnt on his hex. even though the player was invis, and i dont know which hex he decides to take form next.

Why am i complaining?, it wont get me anywhere my friends tell me. I know it wont get me anywhere, but this relates to personel experience i have HAD yes ME, not my friend, ME, As most of you know, i Lived in ancients alot, sometimes too much, and yes guess what? The same player did the exact same thing to me, and nothing could be done then either. The player openly admits taking gold, but i wasnt on his hex, so thats ok, its fine.

Scenario A:

GiantKing hunt - giantking is killed killed by a halberd user, so he is offhex, the halberd user didnt join the party because the party was full, what happens? you wait for the corpse to rot to reveal the goodied you just spennt 2 hours killing for. Whilst waiting you are battling the giants in the lair, you run out of IH because you went to the hunt naked, so you go back to CC to stock up on IH, you come back to the lair only to find mr.x is stood there wearing the goodies from the lair you just killed. But its ok, you werent on the hex, so thats fine, say, anyone want to go kill giant king for me again? because i was stupid enough to run out of IH, and its in the rules so hey, lets abide by the rules, thats what theyre there for isnt it?

Or maybe because you are naked, those not so tough spear giants are knocking you around lil, you get knocked off the hex whilst you are waiting, and mr.x is there invis waiting for you to leave that hex, and BINGO there is is, you just lost your giantking gear. You may be asking Why? its simple, you werent on the hex!! your fault, you shouldnt get proned off the hex.

how about the halberd user comes back to search the corpse for you, he leaves, THEN you get proned off the hex, oh lookie here, its gone again, why? well, you might figure that out.

Plain and simple you were not on the hex, so the gear is not yours.even thought you just spent a good few hours in that area killing to aquire the prize you wanted.


Scenario B:

Deathsasquatch Hunt- sas dies you search the corpse, Quazi prones you off hex and flats you, damm shame, you just lost yet another lair because you are not on the hex.


Scenario C:


Coining - You spend hours coining in a well known place that provides some of the games best loot. your a barb who likes to charge around in a raged fury, you leave the hex, loot isnt yours anymore. 3 hours worth of loot gone, and its allowed according to the rules.

Once again you werent robbed, its allowed, and sysops even that they know they would not like it if it happened to them, they are powerless because the floor theif, (oh, am i allowed to call it that? after all its not theft anymore if its allowed ) is only playing by the rules of the game.


If its not Clear by now Brad, some players do take advantage of your rules. Dont you think it might be time to update/change them?

*Merlz*


EDIT : Sorry for any bad spelling,punctuation or anything else i missed up.
Last edited by Merlin on Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crusher
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Post by Crusher »

Merlin, this is a lost cause. I've already posted about a very similar issue and they did nothing. I like the way you explained it tho. I completely agree with the whole statement.
Last edited by Crusher on Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frozboz
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Post by Frozboz »

The rule sucks.

In the old days, there was a "fear" of retribution of a player PK'ing and stripping/popping someone's gear that was stealing. Now, we don't have this enforcement.

May I suggest something Atom mentioned a few weeks ago, and worked very well for me: Set random fate traps in your little hunting area, and then be very vocal about it in channel 0. If you don't have a thief capable of this, PM me and I'll do it for you. I did this earlier in the week, and it totally stopped floor thieving in uc3.5 (for a few hours anyway).. This after being repeatedly ripped off about every hour of hunting. I also got PM's from others on uc3.5 that their piles weren't mysteriously disappearing anymore either. It works.

saucon21
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Post by saucon21 »

I thought the rules for Lairs was you had to be in atleast 8 hexs to the monster loot something like that.
The only lair i am somewhat concerned about is Kaldor since i leave his lair when i am killing him to repair my gear, i just fear someone willgrab the lair while i am reapairing my gear

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Yeti
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Post by Yeti »

well, the other day after about 12 hours of hunting, someone decided to relieve me of half a room full of loot. <prolly only about 10m but its still the principle :D

if i were to fate trap the room i am hunting in, would that be against the rules? <G>

after writing this i read further into froz's post, but my question still stands, is this considered against the rules?

-Yeti
Last edited by Yeti on Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Frozboz
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Post by Frozboz »

Originally posted by Yeti


well, the other day after about 12 hours of hunting, someone decided to relieve me of half a room full of loot. <prolly only about 10m but its still the principle :D

if i were to fate trap the room i am hunting in, would that be against the rules? <G>

after writing this i read further into froz's post, but my question still stands, is this considered against the rules?

-Yeti
Aren't you supposed to be on vacation?

Anyway, there's a few things that lets me take that risk. For starters, like you said, it's not the money, it's the principle. That being said, I'll risk at most a 1 day lockout to prove a point, to put it into people's minds "hey he might have a fate trap somewhere near, I'll move on".. You see, that's really all that's needed, the fear of it as a deterrent. And people should know by now I'm not afraid to try things like this.

Secondly, let's look at what would happen if a floor thief did trigger a fate trap. Would they complain to the powers that be? Perhaps, but isn't that immediately labelling them as a floor thief? Of course, it could turn into a "he said she said" sorta thing, and if that happens, refer to the next point:

Third, any hostile action that happens to a liminv crit isn't your fault. Think about it. You're happily EC'ing away. A liminv person walks onto your hex and dies. Whos fault was it? Certainly not yours. Same thing applies to fate traps. If they are dumb enough to complain to the sysops, don't be confrontational about it. Cut and paste this next sentence and you shouldn't have a problem: "Honestly Mars, all I was doing was trying to fate my new crit away from town, when a liminv player just happened to come by holding the exact item I had trigger the trap! What are the odds of that?? Maybe if they were walking around visible I could have warned them.... but..." You see, it's not your fault. I'm not saying the Sysops are stupid (oh man.. nevermind), but if you give them even a half-plausible reason for your actions, they will most likely take your side over a floor thief.

If worse comes to worse, and the floor thief makes a huge deal over it, complains in chat and in forums, then imo that actually does the most good. Would anyone ever steal from you again?

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shadeth
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Post by shadeth »

I don't think that people who loot my areas are doing so to cause grief, or to be impolite. This has been proven out time and time again when we talked.

If I leave loot on the ground and I move offscreen I don't expect for them to find me, when they enter a large area.

The #1 "hunting" rule I have adopted is "If I want the loot then I clean it up as I go". Even though this slows down my skill/xp and can lose me an area, I find that it causes me the least grief over time, especially when I am looking for an "item" drop.

The flip side of this "hunting" rule is: "If I want to skill/xp to the max then I don't expect the loot to be there when I am done". Half the time the loot is, half the time it isn't.

I also have a series of check-list rules I go through when in "coining" mode:
1) Is anyone on screen,
2) Can I hear someone on/off screen yelling their actions,
3) Are there any corpses on the ground
If none of the above are true, then I turn on the vacuum cleaner. If any of the above become true then I move on. If they move and kill in my area while in "coining" mode, then I move on once. If it happens twice I leave. It is just a courtesy.

Drakkar's "on hex is only yours" rule just puts a minumim in place, not what we as a ever changing community adopt. On classic the rules of hand were more social. And yes, there will always be jerks who are doing things to grief you - "just to grief you". But this rare, especially in this non-PvP cooperative based community.

The issue of lair thieving has happened to everyone, especially the more years they play. When tracking it down (on classic, NVN, and IEN), and getting the persons to confess, it was 99% of the time someone "in the party" who did it. I doubt players are stealing lair items, especially since you see a loud message when a person "ties" the lair item.

I don't know if this was any help, or will just create hostile posts. I have seen over the years, that the people who "grief others" or tend to "flame over and over" rarely stick around more than 2 years. So, just hang in there and have fun?

ShaDeth

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Crusher
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Post by Crusher »

Like I said, you will never know who steals your loot unless your fate trap kills the person or you happen to FB/EC them while they are there.
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Yeti
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Post by Yeti »

i wasnt asking if it was legal cuz you said you did it, i was asking if i twas legal cuz i have done it several times and wonder if i broke the rules <G>

i agree completely with ya post, which is the same reason i fate trap my areas as i see fit.

was just wondering if there was an official stance on this, since they seem to be taking official stances on lots of stuff nowadays

and yes, i am on vacation right now, but i still have internet :D

-Yeti
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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

From now on, i will be fate trapping my area, i have a friend who is a large theif, he pffered to do it for me.

be warned, take the risk if you want ;)

Shadeth, how about adding another rule to your guidlines?

Merlins Rule : If there is coins all over the floor and 150 + gems on most hexes, LEAVE THEM THERE, theyre probably there for a reason, maybe just the slight chance that someone is hunting there.


*Merlz*
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Doro
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Post by Doro »

Unless you are shouting your fate trap warning every round, what is to stop someone visible blundering into your area and you not being able to stop them in time?

Game abuse?
Abuse of the innocent?

Thin ice I call it.

What would be the comeback if one of my crits were fated whether by accident or otherwise through no fault of my own?

I'm all for players following the unwrittten rules, but this is one step beyond that I think.

PS What if I was running around and didn't get to hear your warning in time?

PPS Warning if I get one of my crits fated, I will personally come looking for you.
Afterall I would have no crit worth playing with and therefore have nothing to loose.

PPPS Eek, I see a vendetta situation brewing here and it hasn't even happened yet !
Last edited by Doro on Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
ho

Braindead
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Post by Braindead »

I think I have the best solution for everyone. When you are hunting and want the coin, just call me (Braindead in dz, usually in #suu on mirc). For a small percentage (99.87% of what I pick up) I will gladly coin an area for you :-D Really, it's a steal <eg>

Love always,
Braindead/Hermes_____SUU
Last edited by Braindead on Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mihey
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Post by Mihey »

Hey, I have an idea!

1st, create a cash vending machine.
2nd, implement credit cards.

There, when you hunt, just toss stuff into the cash vending machine and it converts it into coins, which are transferred to your bank - and you can access your money via a credit card!

Whee. :D

Yes, of course that was sarcasm. ;)
Mihey__PHNX

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Frozboz
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Post by Frozboz »

Excellent points Doro.. I've slept on it and come to the conclusion that overall this is a bad idea. Initially it looks like a great deterrent, but I'd imagine it would cause so many vendettas, sysop headaches and even more bad blood than the game has in it now. Plus the potential for abuse and accidents are very high.

Let's just get back to the good old fashioned Drakkar community and try to be civil to each other. I will if you will! The community is a large part of why Drakkar has been around as long as it has.. there are good points in this thread, so let's just all try to live by them.

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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose »

Originally posted by Braindead


I think I have the best solution for everyone. When you are hunting and want the coin, just call me (Braindead in dz, usually in #suu on mirc). For a small percentage (99.87% of what I pick up) I will gladly coin an area for you :-D Really, it's a steal <eg>

Love always,
Braindead/Hermes_____SUU

Now just suppose the professional coiner only charged 20%. I think it could work ...

In party (but not the leader); a defined coining level (ie sell uncut emeralds, diamonds, lrg red & lrg green..pop the rest); party attendance calculated and pro-rated for time hunting (time docked for excessive trips out to check skill ... you know who you are).

Coiner would have to be able to write checks and be trusted in Cob ... come to think of it .. Nork probably doesn't reqire coiners ... but if you want to be one when you grow up, practice wouldn't hurt.

coin transfer macros at bank:
(make both and test by withdrawing the coin to the counter & redepositing right away)
teller,withdraw 500000"out
teller,deposit 500000"in
...edit "teller" to match the bank teller's name at the chosen branch
...I set alt O for withdrawal (out) & alt I for deposit (in)
...check on auto return (& alt obviously)
...remember that the counter will only hold 500k so make sure of your macro's and careful of your timing ... the coin can fall under a wall hex or behind the counter (use VT banks ... the walls can be illusion/cleared)

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Post by Gizmak666 »

The *only* problem I see with this, Ambrose, is dividing up checks for less than a full bank. Hopefully one day that will be rectified, but until then playing with macros to get your cash out of the bank is easily worth the 20% fee you propose.

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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

In party (but not the leader); a defined coining level (ie sell uncut emeralds, diamonds, lrg red & lrg green..pop the rest);
Popping gems is a bad way at coininf, if you do that your not a good coiner ;)

well thats how i see it, others may look at it different.


*Merlz*
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shadeth
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Post by shadeth »

Originally posted by Merlin
Shadeth, how about adding another rule to your guidlines?

Merlins Rule : If there is coins all over the floor and 150 + gems on most hexes, LEAVE THEM THERE, theyre probably there for a reason, maybe just the slight chance that someone is hunting there.

*Merlz*
Merlin,

I often leave thousands of gems after I hunt an area. I did it this weekend, and have for years. So do others, because we get tired or just don't care after a long grunt. That is one reason many people go into two modes of play, hunt vs coin.

I do think Drakkar's rules are fair and well proven.

ShaDeth

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Crusher
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Post by Crusher »

Doro, you forgot one very special detail. "trap carrying"
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Perish
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Post by Perish »

Hey merl remember when that guy popped 400 + uc 4 gems on my hex causing all my money to poof . So i 1 shotted him only for him to try to complain to sysop that i am a pk'er lol 25 meg gone instantly ......i think i let him off e z what about you

perish

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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose »

Giz,
Yes ... banking macros are not a solution for the volume in cob ... more for nork.

Merl,
if you are grunting out 150 gems per hex, then you are NOT skilling ... the idea is to have someone gather your coin while you are in skill party ... and popping zero gems certainly works as a 'coining level'

Maybe 20% is high .. I dunno ... I was just exploring the 'scenario' of a professional coiner

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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

Ambrose, you have obviously never seen how a ment hunts, hehe. i didnt say i was skilling, was exping, also where have you been? you never seen a party in upper ? 255 + gems on all the main hexes, while theyre skilling , coin is just a product that gets in the way :-/



Yes perish i remember, you EC'd me aswell ;) just lucky my barb was frothy ;)


*Merlz*
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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose »

I cannot see whether you are making YOUR point or MY point, Merlin ... and I got better things to do than watch you hunt .. hehe ...

yes I have seen hexes with 255+ gems ... I have created them while hunting solo (not as easy for pally as for ment) are you going to pop them or not? SOME of them? You know as well as I that keeping up with it beats the hell out of killing for 2 hours and selling gems for 8 hours ... especially since you leave the area to sell the gems ... and guess what ... they don't belong to you after you leave under the current 'rules'.

Perhaps YOUR style of 'hunting' would call for 3 coiners to keep up with you ... I'm just trying to work the problem. I know that I hate leaving loot for others when I am skilling ... If your whole purpose is COINING, then parties still can get it done ...

I used to hunt with a ment who felt cheated coz they felt they could have kept more if they had been alone ... always true if starting with a full floor. But if that is "un-owned" loot it belongs no more to one person than another. Starting with a clean floor meant someone had to do the killing ... and that was mostly my job

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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

not going to argue with a pally.


8 hours to coin after 2 hours of hunting? what? you walk back to cc every trip ?

most ments just teleport or pally's can even use the succor ability.

try asking some big pally's why it doesnt take them 8 hours after 2 hours of hunting to coin.


*Merlz*
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Stormwind
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Post by Stormwind »

Nothing beats the coining power of a ment. Large piles of gems are easily dealt with. And popping is foolish, you lose 50% of the value of the gems if the pile even survives the transmute.

-Stormwind
"Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you."

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