Aug 18th changes

[Gatade]

Heh esc works when it wants to always has for me if the new haste is 3 rounds always sounds like I'll be an addict soon. I hope changes dont get taken out they're awesome no more gettin smacked around when accidentally picking up a pile and waiting on it to finnish 20 rounds later

[Migam]

1) Attack icon and no attack :I had mentioned earlier about how you could sometimes double click a target and get the 2 hits because end of 1 round, start of another (before and now). And that sometimes you had difficulty trying do kill stacked commands when you needed to cancel these actions.

But what I just noticed after playing more (after the last reset of course) is that I have had attacks that did nothing. I would immediately click the target when you get the attack icon (tomahawk?) and wait. And realize it didn't register. I'd click again and it would register that new attack and nothing more. This happens every 10 minutes or so. And I'm not stacking commands either. Just clicking one by one to avoid stacking.

It seems the icon is appearing before it is really ready to take the next command (like clicking when the icon is only an arrow) and is also not entering it into the command buffer. I heard the command buffer is part of the FE so not subject to August 18th change (unless last FE update had some feature embedded that has now been activated Monday). As my pally is still shy of MS and with about 20 crits on me in N-6, I can't help but click as soon as it appears to kill quickly.

2) Game freezes: I go through a portal and game freezes. No change. If I click 1 hex away, I appear 1 hex from destination hex and destination hex is black. I click a few times on terrain window then suddenly I am hexes away from destination hex as it registered those movement clicks and put me there with no round by round update (as if I have just moved 6 hexes through a wall). Same has happened when twigging. Only happened a few times before but now happening more often. This is on 2 different computer. I close lobby down, restart lobby and most of the time, it stops. Sometimes, have to do about 4 times. I may have been crossing alts so I will experiment.

3) I never have really gotten serious lag before (when I do, it stops game) but after reset, I've been getting much more. Maybe I'm confusing this with the the lost attack commands.

I am grateful for the changes but item 1) is a concern for me. I haven't tried on barb but would hate to click zerk while near dead and not get OOC because it's missing not only attack commands but possibly all commands like zerk. Which would mean stacking zerks to make sure I'm not just sitting there seeing if it registered. And hoping no one walks in while killing last crit.

[Arithawn]

I have noticed that haste in NL seems to be working great however in the Nork and Cobrahn Scenarios it appears to be slower then it used to be for attacks anyway. i love the new drag though makes coining alot easier and stocking up to get back at it is improved greatly.

[Brad]

I'm experimenting with haste values in diff scenarios, trying to make it similar to what it was.

nameless still has no delay, which makes haste way to fast.

I think the final one will be somewhere between the nork and cobrahn values.

[Ravaillac]

Why not just make the haste value depend on the skill of the caster??

[Brad]

hmmmm thats interesting

[Arithawn]

That sounds like a great Idea.

[Rathe]

Brad, I REALLY hope you get the timing back to what it was for haste. As it stands now, cob is fubar'd for ments.

Using the 'Dashes' command to get rnd timing. We currently get 2 attacks in cob, 3 in nork, 3 in nl. Prior to the changes you put in for sack speedups the normal timing I was getting was 3 per rnd.

If you follow through with your plan to stick it somewhere between cob and nork, we are gona be stuck with 2 attacks per rnd.

I have been pushing real hard lately to get my exp lvl up for nameless as i cannot use most stuff there until 30-35. This testing/change has really slowed me down. For us haste addicts, cutting our hitting power by 1/3 is enuff to make u want to quit.


Any chance you could use your beta server to do these kinds of tests??? lol

-Rathe_RIP
A depressed adicted ment

[Terrel]

Brad,

3 attacks per round has been standard fro quite some time now. hate to see it reduced, especially because those who use it most (ments and f/m's) are the weakest classes offensively, and rely upon it heavily. Reducing that power by 1/3 makes them even weaker.

Some other ideas....

1. Leave it as it was <G>
2. Keep haste 3x per round in all segments, but lengthen rounds?
3. 3 actions per round for caster, 2 for anyone else that the caster casts it on.
4. Also thought Rav's skill based idea was interesting.

[Tranquil]

just wondering here..

was 3 actions per round achieved by "clicking" or by stacking commands?

[Thiefy]

stacking, i believe the most you can ever get by clicking is 2

I just recently noticed that haste was 3x per round, I always thought it was 2 until I took some haste during soloing a slith and heard the armor block sound 3x a round, compared to the 1 not hasted.

But yea, i DO get armor blocks and im not ashamed! I LOVE my skill 5 thrown



~-Thiefy___KAM-~

[Ender]

Brad....

you say nameless makes haste 'way too fast'...

haste has always allowed 3 turns per round when you have a GOOD NIGHT and a CLEAN NODE....

most of the time there is some kind of drag that makes you ONLY have 2 rounds from time to time... but to say that 3 per round is WAY TOO FAST is silly.. that is how it has been.....

Yes... it is now INCREASED.... to a SMOOTH 3 per round on each and every round... but i think it is only increased about 3 to 5 TOTAL actions per 10 rounds if you have a clean node......

Anyway... to do something that would make haste have LESS than 3 per round would be BACKING UP its been 3 per round (on the most part) for a very very long time...

Ender

[Doro]

Ha Ha,

He who has the last laugh . . .

Nerf the healer
Nerf the barb

but NO NO don't nerf the haster !

ho ho

[Dragonslayer]

Originally posted by Terrel

3. 3 actions per round for caster, 2 for anyone else that the caster casts it on.

that makes sense! just as with liminv that's stronger if cast on yourself, haste could work like that too, and in all honesty, think it should

[Freddie]

So when is the next time you are going to alter haste? As of now it is now it is slower then before you ever made any changes which is a downgrade to us. Please let us know. I'm sure the others don't enjoy the feeling of thinking your lagging all the time because you're moving that much slower with the way haste is now:)

Freddie__JIHAD

[Rosey]

Got to agree on this one, one of the main things that makes menting fun for me is to be able to play hasted, which considering we have one measly attack per round isn't exactly going wild! Haste has a lot of impact on the crit when cast, it takes strength, agility, con and it ages. Keeping these stats low, albeit a nuisence, has been worth while in the past but now it's not.

Playing hasted in Cobrahn is just awful I feel like im going in slow motion and it is very frustrating. It's not fun anymore! Please put it back to where we were before with 3 actions per round, Im sure that most would agree that ments were hardly overpowered in the first place.

Rosey__RIP

[Terrel]

Couldnt' agree more about the changes to haste. the ones who use haste most, ment's and f/m's, were hardly overpowered to begin with. Quite the opposite.

Suggested it before, and will do so again..if the concern is that certain classes are too powerful with 3 actions/round...limit the 3 to the caster, and 2 to any castee's.

[Demonaic]

terrel, from what i've seen that's how it already was

[Ravaillac]

In my opinion, haste speed should depend on skill level of caster, not whether it's cast on self or others.

Having it go faster on self-casters could actually weaken ments and f/ms: because implementors would have to assume self-casters are getting extra actions per round and might dilute the power of their abilities accordingly.

I.E. if you assume a caster gets 3 actions per round to a non-caster's 2, or a non-haster's 1, you need to dilute the caster's base power level accordingly to even things out, or increase the base-power level of the non-casters relative to that of the casters (I can only imagine the arguments that might generate).

[lalasushi]

are the new skills based on attacks/actions used, or rounds? if its rounds, it could be a big disadvantage for hasted spellcasters, lol

[Terrel]

Originally posted by Ravaillac


In my opinion, haste speed should depend on skill level of caster, not whether it's cast on self or others.

Having it go faster on self-casters could actually weaken ments and f/ms: because implementors would have to assume self-casters are getting extra actions per round and might dilute the power of their abilities accordingly.

I.E. if you assume a caster gets 3 actions per round to a non-caster's 2, or a non-haster's 1, you need to dilute the caster's base power level accordingly to even things out, or increase the base-power level of the non-casters relative to that of the casters (I can only imagine the arguments that might generate).

It could go that way, Rav, negatively, I mean....and I certainly don't want to start a f/m or ment vs all other classes, but...

Giving f/m's three actions per round still leaves them far far behind other classes in terms of offensive punch. 3 espears or 3 charges aren't even close to 2 maxstrikes, rapid punches, backstabs, or an equivalent level psicrush.

Ments are a bit more potent with elance, but the huge ep usage is a limiting factor there as well, as compared to the aforementioned attacks, so it tends to limit itself. OTOH, 3 elances a round is probably comparable to two of the aforementioned attacks, which, imo, is not a bad thing...ments are already weak defensively, so it is not unbalancing to put them on a par with other classes offensively.

[Brad]

In todays reset i've adjusted the haste delay timer down by 25%, trying to find a magic number.

[Esper]

I'm now getting a mixture of 2s and 3s, about 1/3 of the rounds being 3s

The way that haste used to work for me allowed me to get mostly 3s, 2s were caused by lag.

[Ravaillac]

Terrel said:

Giving f/m's three actions per round still leaves them far far behind other classes in terms of offensive punch. 3 espears or 3 charges aren't even close to 2 maxstrikes, rapid punches, backstabs, or an equivalent level psicrush.

To my thinking, it's the base attacks that should be balanced rather than the augmented (hasted) results. In other words, your regular "base" attack as a f/m or ment should be balanced with the base attacks of other classes. Once you balance the bases, you can figure out what augmentation effects make sense and how their power levels can relate to the base levels.

Ravaillac