Time to stop over gearing new players

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Kiya138
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Time to stop over gearing new players

Post by Kiya138 »

I think its time we stop over gearing new players.

When i started playing Drak on ien, a little over 4 yers ago, newb gear was yeti, kitty, rak. Most of us managed to get by with those til 11/8 or 13/10, psi users were encouraged to get the items for muzi quest. Lately, many newb's expect to have top scale, robes etc, handed to them. they also expect Uzi's, +6 hally's, Slicers, Bresh, stiletto's, even baskies handed to them.

I've seen more teeny crits, unmaxed, toting Bresh, stilrtto, wearing sliths, reggies etc. There are not enough of these for players who have played for a reasonable period, gained the experience and earned the skills to need or require most of the nork higher end lairs.

I have been in cob less than a week and find that many there are wanting gear that they are not really ready for, partly because they have had so much handed too them, at a smaller size.

I'm not including returning players, either with imported accts or new ones, as they have, at one time or another earned the items mentioned earlier. I am however, including the children of long time tenured players, who are often over geared by doting parents.

Instead of exp lvl requirement for most lairs, and cob, make it skill requirements. if don't have reasonable skill, no lair or cob. Many players are interested in getting the exp for cob without the appropriate skill to do even fair there. If they could get to 18/1 they'd be in cob in a heart beat. Something like skill 13 for psi and skill 15 for sticks.

Kiya/Kiri
Last edited by Kiya138 on Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

purg2
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by purg2 »

Unfortunatly it wont stop. Not unless the Sysops are on 24/7 watching Every Log and standing in Tanners watching everything that happens. Also there is no rules against over gearing a newbie. If a LVL 1 player comes in and a 50/30 wants to get them a Reggie, Well that is going to be one HAPPY newbie lol.

Just do what the rest of us do when they see it. Just whack your thumb with a hammer and tell the newbie "Nice" then run away before you say anything else heheh.

Pax
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Pax »

The way things generally go...

<time passes>

Player B comes to Drak.
Player B asks or gets gear.
Player A (slightly older player) tells player B "wait until you are ready."
Player A recounts stories of "how it was for them".

<time passes>

Player C comes to Drak.
Player C asks or gets gear.
Player B (slightly older player) tells player C "wait until you are ready."
Player B recounts stories of "how it was for them".

<time passes>

Kiya138
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Kiya138 »

unforunately pax, it no longer works that way, people hand gear to teeny newb's just to shut them up

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Longbeard
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Longbeard »

I think all of lair gear has to have minimum exp level built into it in order to wear or use.

And i know many people will be unhappy about this idea, thinking about 2ndary slots. But inflation in the "prize" value(which gear is) when you can use it very, too early is serious to warrant it. -Just an oppinion.
Last edited by Longbeard on Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mihey
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Mihey »

Yep. Limit every single piece of gear to certain lever, aligment, skill or stats. Level 1 "baby" crit with reggies aint fun anyway! ;)

Smasher mace is a good example... only level 16+ can use it, so baby crits cannot use it until they level up. Then they deserve it!
Mihey__PHNX

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LadyVirago
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by LadyVirago »

I agree also. Level/skill minimums on gear/weapons I think would balance things out..and bring some fun back to playing smaller crits (heck bigger ones too)..it's just way too easy sometimes on baby crits when you suit them all up..(which yes i do now..my barb steals outta my ments closet sometimes) but I sure can live without it.

Also would help when confronted by newbs on a mission..as i was yesterday...
would have been able to say instead of just "uhmm no i can't solo SOB and you don't need key anyways..."could have added.." uhmm..you can't wear the gear till "x" lvl anyways..go hunt and have fun:)"

As Mihey said..we already have some gear/weapons with lvl requirements..such as smasher and nork full plate. Not sure how coding the rest would go..but if it' possible..i'm all for it.

LadyVirago of ICE
Take time to smell the roses along the road to greatness.

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Kanak
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Kanak »

Originally posted by Pax
The way things generally go...
<time passes>
Player B comes to Drak.
Player B asks or gets gear.
Player A (slightly older player) tells player B "wait until you are ready."
Player A recounts stories of "how it was for them".
<time passes>
Player C comes to Drak.
Player C asks or gets gear.
Player B (slightly older player) tells player C "wait until you are ready."
Player B recounts stories of "how it was for them".

<time passes>
I'll fill this in for example: (I'll use a +5 golden widget)

Once upon a time Long Long Ago (maybe a couple years)
Player A (a level 18) walks uphill to a lair both ways. Bringing all his/her friends/guild mates and half the player base. They kill the dreaded Acme monster and obtain the powerfull Golden Widget. HE IS PROUD.

<time passes>
Player B comes to Drak from the void of fluff and sees Player A and the widget.
Player A (slightly older player) tells player B "wait until you are ready."
Player A recounts stories of "how it was for them".
Player B actually now waits untils he is level 13 and he and every one he can drag from the SF MT to the Acme Monster and the Beast is slain.
Player B gains his prize which he values because he actually hit the monster twice.

<time passes>
Drakkar 2003 Many now have golden widgets
Player C comes to Drak.
Player C asks /begs. Because they see widgets they must be needed to play in Nork 1.
Player B (slightly older player) tells player C "wait for a bit"
Player B recounts stories of "how it was for them".
Player C refuses to hunt and asks everyone he sees.
Player X either thinking he is helping or trying to make a buck solos the Acme Monster and MTs/DXs Player C to get the stuff (notice the weapon of pride is now common stuff)

<time passes>
Player C finds there is an easy way to skill up mega quick and devotes several hours.
Player C is now on Cob (see above and repeat)

<time passes>
Player C now thinks he is big stuff. Passes out questionable knowledge and goodies to players D....M so they will be his buds. Sir C has now wasted little time on Drakkar history or tradition or community values but he is more powerful than Player A.

<time passes>
Player C has seen it all - Player C has done it all Player C is bored and heads for Fluff Fantasy dot net.

Would player C have stayed if he had to work for gear. Who knows for some its just a game for others its a hobby. But my bet is that Player A had the best time:)

Alexis
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Alexis »

Very well illustrated!
-Alexis the Thief-

buho
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by buho »

I totally agree on lvl limits to use gear.

buho.

purg2
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by purg2 »

Yea I remember asking about reggies at 13, Found out limit and freaked out. Took a break for awhile, played for awhile, finally got it. Though most said 18/15, I just lucked out and got it at 17/15. Now that the Reggie has been nerfed some, I just dont feel as proud about it as I used to. I mean I still wear one, but I usually wear a Rak under it.
It just doesnt block the PSI attacks that it used to.

My only question is, Would the limits on gear be set by Brad and the powers that be? Or will players be Polled on the requirements for them?

It might be kinda interesting to see what players and the powers that be feel on this. You know who would set the higher limits and such. Maybe set up a large survey for each type of gear. Let me try and example.

RD scales - LVL 10/LVL11/LVL12/LVL13
RB Sash - LVL6/LVL7/LVL8/LVL9
*Brad or someone would figure out the basic lvl settings*

Players could get a copy of this in a TXT Form, and put in their answers and Email it in. Then someone would poll it all up.

Just DONT let flisk set up the Poll is all I ask PLEASE. LOL

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Longbeard
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Longbeard »

I don't thing SYSOPS are unreasonable people. I just think they dont have time enough for all of our game caused grief <g>

If they could just set levels on gear them selves it would not be wrong i am sure, examples in the game seem to work just fine.

Shaddai
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Shaddai »

Nononono, the way things generally go is:

<time passes>

Player B comes to Game X.
Player B does something.
Player A (slightly older player) tells player B "You didn't do it the way I did, you are not playing the game correctly"
Player A recounts stories of "how it was for them" without taking into account that what they consider fun may not be what player B considers fun.

<time passes>

Player C comes to Game X.
Player C does something.
Player B (slightly older player) tells player C "You didn't do it the way I did, you are not playing the game correctly".
Player B recounts stories of "how it was for them" without taking into account that what they consider fun may not be what player C considers fun.

<Lather, Rinse, Repeat>
Last edited by Shaddai on Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

purg2
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by purg2 »

Well like I said, Im just curious who would set the higher standards. I know like MoY had reggie set at 18/15 if you wanted one, But i think there was another guild that required 19/16.

Im not saying the sysops wouldnt be fair about. Just curiousity more then anything.

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Thundar__RELM
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Thundar__RELM »

Purg when are you ever going to learn? Haven't you been around long enough to know the answer to that question. Here I will tell you the levels that sysops would impose.

All gear that does not drop off an eater would require you to be post 50/30 to wear.
All gear that drops off an eater would be available as soon as you were big enough to not rerole after being eaten and required to be removed as soon as you were big enough that it stopped said eaters from hitting you. Plus to get the gear you must have no big players in the lair when you fight it and if you don't get eaten at least once while getting it then the gear would be cursed and double all attacks against you.

That seems like a pretty fair estimate of what sysops would choose:)

By the way ma's would then finally rule as well.

Thundar__RELM
Last edited by Thundar__RELM on Thu Jan 30, 2003 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

purg2
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by purg2 »

you scare me Thundar lol

makoosh2
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by makoosh2 »

Yep it seams these days people are getting gear they dont deserve....Your probally thinking what do you mean deserve...I mean if you want a baskie you should be able to easly survive the hunt AND be helpful in someway. If you cant survive the hunt for the gear you want then dont ask for it. Sadly these days it wont happen like this the biggger players who can solo baskie run there and say any small crits want a baskie?They say yes, dont help on the hunt, and end up with good gear. Personally we need something new entered in the game wich will stop this like something that says you cant be this big to get in or something...Or maybe to tan something you have to get last hit or something..Those just some examples so dont take those to serious..


Makoosh2(DZ) or Magician !
Makooooooooooshie

buho
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by buho »

"Deserve" in my own definition: being able to do something sizable there.

Being "not sizable": running like a chicken yelling for heal; healing for 63 HPs sticks who are lossing 300 HPs/hits; ESing at such a level that the ESed player cant realize any difference, being blocked 99/100 rounds and making no damage when you hit, etc.

buho.

PS: Same for skilling parties.

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Mihey
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Post by Mihey »

Okay. Lets put it straight.

If someone asks me to fetch him some item, it is MY decision if I will do it or not. Absolutely mine. I may gear a complete noob in top gear if I want to. That is my right and I believe everyone has the right as well.

Of course I ignore beggars, players that have already gotten too much for their size, players that I personally dont like etc. It is all by my own judge.

Sometimes I do happen to run upon honest players that would like to get something that would aid them... Yeah, they have a good chance of me helping them then. If they ask in a polite and respecting way, they get a chance. Those that dont even ask for gear get my attention too - because I feel great if I can reward them for their modesty. Then there are those that dont even know of existence of world beyond nork boundaries... They get some good newbie gear, such as enchanted steel shield or silver halberd, NEVER without a good deal of info. Nothing worse than a player that has good gear but no idea about the environment etc.

But when they get greedy.. they lose all chances. I am sad to note that some players are getting greedy just because they have been given gear but no words of wisdom.

Never give gear away without words of wisdom!
Mihey__PHNX

makoosh2
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by makoosh2 »

I agrea with some of you but we all have are own oponions and I dont think anything will change big crits decisions or anyones..We all just got to live with whats happening I guess...
Makooooooooooshie

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Avenger
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Post by Avenger »

I like this thread. I personally was forced out of a guild because I raised hell about being told to go on a lair hunt where I wasn't big enough to even hit the lair crit. Being a barb I was also being tagged to help bait with my high hps. Funny thing was, the person the prize gear was for wasn't big enough to hit it either.

What ever happened with "If you can't hit it, you don't need it"???

Level/skill restrictions on gear would be very nice, errr would have been. :(
FAT BOTTEM GIRLS MAKE THE ROCK'N WORLD GO ROUND!!

Duncan
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Duncan »

Veng you left of your own accord after repeated blowups in our internal chat where you blasted your guildmates for a number of different reasons and then disappeared for days on end. This is not an issue for public discussion but if you insist on airing your own dirty laundry here at least get the facts straight.

Duncan_STORM

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Avenger
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Post by Avenger »

hmmmm I seem to have hit a nerve. ;)

All that anger and pent up hostility is not good for you Dunc.

See the light and may it set you free.
Last edited by Avenger on Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
FAT BOTTEM GIRLS MAKE THE ROCK'N WORLD GO ROUND!!

Duncan
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Duncan »

Originally posted by Avenger


hmmmm I seem to have hit a nerve. ;)

All that anger and pent up hostility is not good for you Dunc.

See the light and may it set you free.
I'm frequently amazed at what people read into the written word both in this forum and in the DZ chat. Instead of assuming anger and hostility just read the words that were written.

You haven't hit any nerves. The issues that lead to your leaving left with you.

I have no anger or hostility toward you in fact I was probably your biggest supporter when we discussed trying to bring you back into the guild. As it was, a poll was set up in our private forum and the vote was against reinstatement (by a narrow margin).

I have no idea what light you'd like me to see or what freedoms you think I should strive for but as I posted earlier. This isn't the place to discuss it.


Duncan_STORM

Jester
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Replying to Topic 'Time to stop over gearing new players'

Post by Jester »

Back to topic...

I think the key to the whole gear question revolves around cob. In cob, gear is everything. Then after players have been in cob for a while, they realize just how aweful pretty much all of the gear in nork is. And after a while, players stop putting such a high value on nork gear, or, the are anxious for a change of pace after grunting in the keep for 4 weeks strait...

kill em all, kill em often, dance naked on their bloody corpses.

then give the corpse to a newbie so they can tan it
Jester

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