Interesting Comment

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flisk
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Interesting Comment

Post by flisk »

Previously Fenris wrote:

"How about as the LAST bastion of a sense of danger in the game. This game is so touchy-feel-good now that sometimes I get a little repulsed.

Eaters are now very few and far between. Your chances of being stripped are almost nil except in a lair encounter, character progression is nearly unchecked thanks to the flow of cob coin.

Granted stealing from other players isn't going to solve the above examples, but it is indeed one of the few things left in the game which create an "edgey feel". I know I thoroughly enjoy a thief sighting and the posse mobilizing to try and find the offender.

Just the other day a ground thief stole a king mino raxe and taunted the guy who had dropped it in SF to swap it. He actually had the audacity to offer the axe back for a meg. I had more enjoyment charming that dork and making him drop the axe than anything else I've done in the game in quite awhile.

I guess the community at large may want this style of no risk play. If that's the consensus of the masses then so be it and remove stealing from players as an option. I for one enjoy the small risks still in the game. "



We all know that the game itself has been made a "safer" place to hunt, and the risks are not as detrimental as they once were. Is this a good thing? Or is this a bad thing?

I agree with Fenris that the "threats" to characters are not very great, without going overboard what are some things that you guys would think would be considered "a sense of danger"?

-flisk

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purg
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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by purg »

Well I think its a good idea to have eaters, but on the other hand, I would hate to risk my gear to an eater and something happening. I.E. Game goes down, a Persons ISP goes down for an period of time. There are other things to take into effect. Me personally, I dont know of a way to make it better.

I keep saying this and most likely ill keep thinking it. We as players should get together with You the ones in charge of the game and bash out some ideas. With people who will keep their heads and voice sound and reasonable ideas. I hate debating and discussing ideas over a Forum. People take extended amounts of time to reply, you loose the idea you were going at and so on.

I doubt it will ever happen, but a big meeting is my idea, to discuss different ideas.

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Ambrose
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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Ambrose »

The "threat" within the game should never be from other players. I've had a fair sized crit BD eaten on consecutive days. Did I feel gut punched? You bet I did ... would I have it taken from game? No. Dangers within the game are finite ... kept reasonable (hopefully) by the programmers. Dangers from others players are not finite. They could choose to empty every crit coming to HP doc. They could keep a player sack so empty they could not buy IH or succor scrolls.

If I were a writer/programmer for the game, I'd bring a new shop keeper to Nork. Have him sell a scorpion scarab from a far away desert to keep in your sack. Have it automatically be first item stolen and stun/poisons thief. (isn't scorpion venom paralytic?) Anyway ... I'm not ... so we won't see THAT.

Ambrose
Last edited by Ambrose on Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Frenzy
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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Frenzy »

I have no problem finding risk in the game. My main crit has soloed for every piece of equipment (with the exception of a +6 that was bought) and has left various death piles because of exploring.

If there is a problem it is with crits that are over-hitpointed. The Levi is an example of this. Full plate is nice armour, but useful only for fighters and pallys. A hp maxed 17 / 13 pally without fp can solo it, in about 5 or 6 hours.

Because ot the time factor, you see large parties of fairly large crits get the levi for the benefit of a smaller player. If the hit points were reduced, it might encourage players who would be at risk to try doing themselves or at least needing a smaller group to do it.

One way to ensure that smaller players have to undergo at least some risk is to go back to a pure kill tie system, rather than the group-think (err party) system that is in place now.

The other thing that has gone on is the change from a per-swing skill system to a kill system. It used to be that taking on a larger crit got you fast skill, now the way to do it is either to be in a soviet (err party), or to find the magic most points/quickest kill mobs.

There is currently no game reason in play to reward someone to take risks.

As to theives, should they steal from players? NO
Should they be allowed to steal from players? YES

Frenzy

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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Arkon »

generally speaking smaller players don't want risk... nor imo should there be at low to mid levels....

for example... no eats before level 13 (kinda in place already in an off hand way cause low level exp players either get big players to do lair for them or inherit the gear from their own larger crits)

I really don't mind eats/exp drainers/stat stealers at all as long as the damage is fixable...

If a stat is able to be taken it should be also fixable... even though some stats should be much harder to replace than others...

Dion is another example... what dion takes should be replaceable... or the penalty should be removed... don't take charisma unless there is a mechanism in the game to replace it... by a lair hunt or a quest doesn't really matter...

The main objection to losing stats/exp/skill is the difficulty in replacing it... ease that up a bit and all should be fair game.

Pax
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Post by Pax »

Personally I feel the greater the risk, the greater the reward. However, I don't feel all risks should be recoverable (most should).

For example -- the old fate 'erase' card was neat imho. If you want to take the risk -- go for it -- but you don't have to.

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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Dragonslayer »

Mmmm, that servant thingy, that seems like a big enough risk <G>
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Toasticle
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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Toasticle »

As someone who plays mostly solo, I'd have to say the per kill system for skill gain & skill gain caps pretty much cut my already infrequent playing time to almost nothing.

There is no reason whatsoever to hunt in areas that are challenging when solo. The money isn't worth it since it takes so long to kill things, and now skill is also horrible. At least before it was implemented I could choose: Hunt easier things and get money faster because I can kill faster, but skill gain was slower, or hunt stuff at the edge of my abilities for better skill gain, but less money. I don't see the greater rewards for greater risks for just normal hunting under the new system, its backwards now: Hunt stuff that can barely scratch you or join a party (Which is much safer than going it alone in most situations) and you get more skill.

So I just end up rarely playing anymore... Yes, the risk of dying is fun in and of itself but the tradeoff of barely advancing my character isn't worth it.

/shrug.

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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Arkon »

Personally I feel the greater the risk, the greater the reward. However, I don't feel all risks should be recoverable (most should).
Welp...not sure how you are looking at it but as an example lets say dion took my charisma down to 14 (which it has) now if there were difficult quests to do to replace those lost points to say 18 it is still me doing something in the game... it is doing something out of the normal standing in keep somewhere skilling... it is variety... it can open up less used areas of the game by making those areas the place to go for completing the quests needed to regain the charisma....

Where is the downside to all of that? The risk was there I took the risk and am fine with losing the charisma. Now put something in that would allow me to get the points back... I don't see where the game is being helped by not allowing some method to rebuild lost stats.... whether those stats are due to stiletto or dion or whatever...

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Ztinktoof
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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Ztinktoof »

The inability to replace something lost is the difference between a "hardcore" and "softcore" game. Fewer people enjoy or are willing to play hardcore versions of games.

Several of the big online gaming companies recognize this and either just have softcore features, or have a seperate hardcode mode. But it is a tough balancing act. In some games, it is so easy to recover what is lost that the game gets boring or looses its edge.

To be honest, Drakkar is starting to lean a bit too much in this direction, IMO. The game's pace is slow enough now to let people manipulate their characters with less than optimal gear. (As opposed to the old days when the game was mostly about gear.)

In a way, this has been worsened by switching the game to a kill based skill system. In IeN, I liked the excitement of hunting areas in which I was undergeared because the risk gave me much better skill. The inducement to do that is now gone.

OTOH, I don't think it should have hardcore features. To continute to thrive it needs to grow paying customers, so it might make out better pandering to softcore players.

On charisma: Lost charisma is recoverable, but it is extremely difficult. Perhaps too much so. OTOH, I have maxxed characters with less than 15 charisma, and also managed to advance them very well with the higher cost of training. Yes, it can save you lots of coin, but there IS an option: pay more coin.

It is also possible to get CHA boosting items to add +6. Certainly, it won't help those classes rolled with very low charisma. This past month I had the occasion to "quest" for such items. I was able to get items all by my lonesome to boost my charisma by +4, and I didn't even search very hard.

Perhaps have "minor" charisma pots that are not too difficult to get (boot CHA to 14, say).
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Replying to Topic 'Interesting Comment'

Post by Watcher »

Originally posted by Ztinktoof


The inability to replace something lost is the difference between a "hardcore" and "softcore" game. Fewer people enjoy or are willing to play hardcore versions of games.

Several of the big online gaming companies recognize this and either just have softcore features, or have a seperate hardcode mode. But it is a tough balancing act. In some games, it is so easy to recover what is lost that the game gets boring or looses its edge.

To be honest, Drakkar is starting to lean a bit too much in this direction, IMO. The game's pace is slow enough now to let people manipulate their characters with less than optimal gear. (As opposed to the old days when the game was mostly about gear.)

In a way, this has been worsened by switching the game to a kill based skill system. In IeN, I liked the excitement of hunting areas in which I was undergeared because the risk gave me much better skill. The inducement to do that is now gone.

OTOH, I don't think it should have hardcore features. To continute to thrive it needs to grow paying customers, so it might make out better pandering to softcore players.

On charisma: Lost charisma is recoverable, but it is extremely difficult. Perhaps too much so. OTOH, I have maxxed characters with less than 15 charisma, and also managed to advance them very well with the higher cost of training. Yes, it can save you lots of coin, but there IS an option: pay more coin.

It is also possible to get CHA boosting items to add +6. Certainly, it won't help those classes rolled with very low charisma. This past month I had the occasion to "quest" for such items. I was able to get items all by my lonesome to boost my charisma by +4, and I didn't even search very hard.

Perhaps have "minor" charisma pots that are not too difficult to get (boot CHA to 14, say).

Very good post Ztinktoof. I agree with you on the issues you brought up. Part of the mystique of the game was doing things solo and if so desired, in secret, so one could develop a character as they saw fit. Exploring and skilling in areas of choice are no longer options, at least not solo.

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