x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

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Migam
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x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Migam »

I didn't want to derail this thread on changes in BDH consort cloak:

http://www.kingdomofdrakkar.com/forums/ ... =16&t=7112

In that thread, Darge made a comment on the 5% chance to be hit in NL. Brad's reply to my email re: exactly that was that there is no 5% forced hit in NL. Isn't that the same thing?

I know I been getting hit more often while having better armor, higher skill and better pally tiers so I wondered, if not 5% chance of hit, what then?

Edit: Topic :P
Last edited by Migam on Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tirith
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Tirith »

Brad won't acknowledge it.. I am not sure why.. I remember the 5% min hit being put in around the same time that alt 2 was being sped up, Prior to that.. My lvl 75 crits geared in the best gear were unhittable in places such as Dornar (a beginning NL dungeon).. I recall Pallies being able to parry and not get hit there prior to being primal.. After alt 2 was sped up and 5% hit was put there, it was also put in NL, Now it does not matter what gear you have on.. when you are getting hit in Dornar -1.. its obvious there is a 5% hit in... It's like me taking my crits to nork alt 2 and getting hit in n-1. Whether he wants to acknowledge it or not.. A change occured.

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Darge
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Darge »

In cases like this, I have the feeling Brad isn't looking in quite the right place. I definitely notice it, and it's not theoretically a huge deal until 1 sneaked in hit means death, but it is important.
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Terrel »

Migam wrote:Brad's reply to my email re: exactly that was that there is no 5% forced hit in NL. Isn't that the same thing?
Maybe it isn't 5%, Migam, but less? Just guessing. Seems like I get hit less often than 1 in 20 swings in Dornar.

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Darge
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Darge »

A preliminary tests (nothing particularly damning) show what appears to be a min hit.

Using a sk 38 barbarian, I repeatedly #arg'ed against my ment in what might as well be unhittable AC (Lvl 70 gear, 2 AA robes). Occasionally, a hit would sneak through.

Then, using the same set up, but having the barbarian use a sk 4 weapon, the same type of results. Theoretically, the sk 4 shouldn't be able to hit this crit.
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I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Migam »

If I factor in Mormar crits swinging multiple times per round, then less than 5% technically. However, looking at rounds, I get hit every 2 to 5 rounds with a zoo of 10 crits when on m16 with pink plate, sk35, 2 farmer robes (I gave up on BDH RD cloak there) and parried when I used to 5MS/parry on m19 with lors, sk33 and less, lich cloaks and hit far less frequently.

I went from using 20 IH for 10-crit m16 zoo with 1 farmer robe to 10 IH with 2 farmer robes on. Before the "change", I used 1. Brad replied asking if I had a huge mob on me. Well, with that blasted teleport when hex loaded, how could I?

At some point, I expected that my gear and skill should make me rarely hittable at least in some parts of upper Mormar and all of Borderlands yet even forgs hit my thief more than often with similiar setup. Albeit it's mostly for 0 damage but still... with pink plate and 54 agi, I'm hit by a forg?
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Quaternion »

I haven’t done any testing so I can’t claim to have any evidence but I agree there is definitely some kind of % of hit. I think this came in after nl was sped up. That was when I noticed being hit in Dornar. Maybe when that speed boost was undone the % of hit wasn’t taken out?

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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Migam »

Quaternion wrote:I haven’t done any testing so I can’t claim to have any evidence but I agree there is definitely some kind of % of hit. I think this came in after nl was sped up. That was when I noticed being hit in Dornar. Maybe when that speed boost was undone the % of hit wasn’t taken out?
That was what was immediately stated by many right after that ended. Many agreed the % hit balanced the speed advantage as is the case in alt2 but as the uberNL was over, the % hit should be removed. Brad and Omni both claimed there was nothing added like that and nothing to remove.
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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by Darge »

There's also some evidence that not all of the uber speed changes are successfully taken out. In Cob, after the speed was taken out, Dion still trades with players while in danger (a "feature" of uber Cob).
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I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

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Re: 5% hit in NL

Post by GenRalph »

In another thread it was suggested that the "Improved Reflexes" quirk did not appear to be working correctly. In fact it appeared to do just the opposite as the % chance to avoid mele went down (or appeared to do so).

I wonder if these two issues are linked together or are atleast two parts of what players are experiencing.

A few months ago when i first came to NL (well after the crazy NL days) i had no basis to identify if any additional % to hit was in place ( i got hit often and rather hard). However, after a month or so i put my first point in Imp. Reflex and noticed being hit more often in Dornar and Forgs (this just happened to be where i was hunting at the time, it may have done likewise elsewhere). Thinking i was mistaken, i kept pumping points into ImpRflx until it was maxed. There was a slight improvement in the chance to avoid with each point but it never appeared to return to what my crit had prior to investing in the quirk. I dont recall any other changes in gear, skill or character stats durring that time.

I attested my puzzlement to either Brad had rolled out changes at the same time i started working with ImpRflx or my perceptions and memory were mistaken. (The later occurs more often with each day).

Are these issues related?? Is there more than one factor involved???

The change in gameplay is not earth shattering. I just have to keep on my toes more. Just food for thought, hoping it will be of some help.
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Acaciam
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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Acaciam »

they're not linked. the imp reflexes caused me to be hit significantly more with each point. melee avoidance seems to be working correctly and i was able to dump in enough points to negate what imp. reflexes did. I still believe its a bug with a wrong sign (+,-) and needs to be looked into. It DEFINITELY works directly opposite as intended.

the 5% hit is a different story.
you can tell when you're on the borderline of getting hit in an area because the order checks are made is:
miss -> skill block -> armor block -> hit

If you're getting mostly skill and armor blocks with an occasional miss, its expected to be hit in that area. When you're in an area you know you should NEVER be hit.. ie.. 29 agi, 20+ weapon skill, High end gear, and your combat log is flooded with misses, yet a rockman hits you on n-1, its not luck on the rockman's part, its a forced hit being let through.

Everyone assumed it was intentional to make up for the uber alts, which everyone was fine with, but now whats happening is instead of being able to be avoided in an area, you are getting 1, or 2 shotted when these hits are consecutive.

Sure it adds a challenge which is what players took it as, but when brad/omni denied it as an intentional change, everyone was puzzled and thought it was a bug and would like to have it fixed because its annoying.

With weird things happening all over the place, like this 5%hit in aleria lairs (ghoul lord should not be able to touch me) since omni tweaked it with the double xp, and it being denied as intentional makes us think that it was intentional and we're being misled about the origin of this forced hit.

I personally think it was put in to prevent exploiting and scripting to where you will eventually die when not sitting there to IH. Which I totally agree with, but it is annoying when i'm hunting places that I should be relatively safe, but getting hit normally with forced hits in between makes it undoable.

I think everyone knows by now it WAS intentional, and is just wondering why, and why it was denied.

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Darge »

Acaciam wrote:I think everyone knows by now it WAS intentional, and is just wondering why, and why it was denied.
You seriously think you're being lied to? What does Brad have to gain by doing so, especially on this particular issue?
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My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Acaciam »

That would be a question for brad.

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Terrel »

Acaciam wrote:
I think everyone knows by now it WAS intentional, and is just wondering why, and why it was denied.
I posted in another thread that mind-reading is dangerous, and often leads to erroneous conclusions. I do believe your conclusion falls in that category.

Say what you want, but my experience is that Brad has been upfront about changes that would be perceived negatively by the player base. At the same time, the game (and most online games) have a rich history of changes being implemented and the law of unintended consequences kicking in.

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Acaciam »

You don't understand..
I think its pretty clear Brad is a conspiracy and these changes were put in by Mars when he took over as lead developer.

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Migam »

Acaciam wrote:You don't understand..
I think its pretty clear Brad is a conspiracy and these changes were put in by Mars when he took over as lead developer.
Wow, what rubbish.

This post was to bring fresh this issue after Brad recently replied to me in email there is no issue. He says there is not a 5% hit... I'm saying that the sped-up alts had that extra chance to hit as a give and take to the faster gains and I feel something is still there, period ; not some conspiracy theory. Maybe even the sped-up perceived 5% was a bug too. It's further emphasized in Mormar due to many swings per attack x number of crits.

There have been some non-documented changes and unintentional results as well (I cannot gain thievery from hidden attacks anymore) and whenever they forget to post a change in forums, I've called this lack to Brad and the sysops attention (divulging changes in dz to a limited audience is not enough).
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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Acaciam »

Issue exists.
Brad says issue doesn't exist.

How is that not a conspiracy?

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Darge »

Conspiracy (n)- a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot).

What you described basically equates to Brad being unable to find a kink in the coding.

P.S.- Looking to purchase a tinfoil hat?
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My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

trav: you bad bad girl

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Acaciam »

Your definition is from... WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

I'm going with:
conspiracy (n) - A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design.

which is from... The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.
Everyone knows The American Heritage is vastly superior to anything doing with Princeton, mainly because its in New Jersey. I know this because I AM a mind reader.

Brad and Mars are acting together in a sinister plot which causes us to be mysteriously hit in NL. Brad's email to Migam denying any such thing exists is to keep our attention focused on the issue and not on the Brad/Mars 2012 political campaign.

It was my original intent to hi-jack this thread and NOT to clear up the issue I mentioned about quirks, and how its not related to the topic. In full disclosure, I have done so because I am hoping for a cabinet appointment.


Lighten up folks. I'm confident Dargie has spent hours talking to Brad about the %hit. Besides, everyone knows that once you complete the masoleum quest, it solves this problem.

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Tnem »

Whoa lets not find the dictionary that has the definition we want, lets quote the ONLY English dictionary: The Oxford English Dictionary:

conspiracy
• noun (pl. conspiracies) 1 a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. 2 the action of conspiring.

But English aside, conspiracy is a bit strong, I don't think Brad or Mars has time to come up with a conspiracy, let alone be bothered. But the problem does exists so lets hope brad can find the problem.

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Darge »

Little did you know, Acaciam, I've been emailing Brad, telling him there is no problem, for months now. Through this, I perpetuate customer dissatisfaction, which I feed off of, growing stronger, and continuing the cycle.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

trav: you bad bad girl

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Volcom »

FAIL

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Re: x% hit in NL (the Percentage formerly known as Five)

Post by Drewstr »

I'm not Trollin', I'm Boxxy, you see.

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