Sigh Mirror

If you have an idea post it here
Post Reply
User avatar
Morgar
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Sigh Mirror

Post by Morgar » Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:24 am

There is something fundamentally wrong with the concept of having a spell costing 100 EP that only works once in a while.

A lot of people complained about the "nerfing" of the red robes, an item I could care less about, but why bother having sigh mirror in the first place if its not going to work consistently? Sigh mirror, as it currently stands is by FAR, a waste of EP, especially when you have no guarantee that it will reflect at all during its duration.

I can understand the need to tone down the effectiveness of the red robes, well not really, but that is besides the point. The reflect and the amount of reflects should be tied to the skill level of the caster. Therefore a skill 10 sigh mirror (as the red robes are) should not reflect as often as a skill 20 ment casting sigh mirror. As it currently stands, there doesn't appear to be any difference between sigh mirror cast by a ment, and wearing a red robe. Except if you want to count the stress and EP usage for the ment.

Is sigh mirror a waste of ep? Yep, it sure seems like it, worse, its a waste of a spell . Maybe the game ops plan on phasing it out entirely.... who knows, but they've sure reduced the utility of the spell.

Morgar

And before anyone gets on my case because I call it sigh mirror, its a play on words. A nice spell in theory, but has little in-game value at this point.
Image

Useful Drakkar files for Heros and Cowards: http://www.northernwebs.com/drakkar

User avatar
Rosey
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:11 pm
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Rosey » Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:21 pm

Hi Morgar,

For me I found also that Psimirror wasnt great when I first got it, but it does get better. I definitely couldnt survive now in UC without it on, also some lairs require the lair crit to be mirrored so it makes us ments more valuable on those occasions.


Rosey__RIP
RIP Guild Website http://www.ripguild.com

Ravaillac
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:02 am

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Ravaillac » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:29 pm

Morgar, Psimirror is great so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Gain some skill and test it again.

Valarc
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:40 pm
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Valarc » Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:27 pm

Psimirror sucks really badly at 18, and is only useful for things like grraagh... as you get bigger it gets better. It's nowhere near as good as it was on IEN, but at skill 27 i get plenty more reflects than a red or reggie ever gives. Like most things with a ment, it sucks when you get it and slowly improves. I still think ments need work in the mid range, like I've always said, but the only hope I can give you is that if you hold out long enough it does get better. It wasn't long ago that I was in your shoes and thought the ment class really sucked. I still think it sucks until you get pretty dang big, and could use major modification at the middle levels, but have at least become happy with my own crit since getting past those mid levels.




and just for fun, because I'd hate to have a fairly positive post without inciting some flamage....

Originally posted by Jinisis

Jinisis__OMNI
"OMNI NEVER dies, it just sneaks around out of sight"
stealing your loot while you aren't looking <G>
Valarc___STORM, usually found in #storm on irc, and in the pillar room in cob

**Excerpt from an actual Lobby chat session**

chance: does valarc eva leave game
Brad: valarc is an NPC
Brad: didnt you know that?

User avatar
Morgar
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Morgar » Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:51 am

Originally posted by Jinisis


I am very sorry Morgar, you are a great guy, a great player, im sure a great person

BUT!!! i am very sarcastic in nature. My two cents are added

Morgar doesnt like ONE spell, i think all the sysops, brad, and pax and randy should all stop what they are doing and fix this one to fit his needs because he doesnt know how it works

Now i am sure there is an explanation... maybe you just got this spell and tried it once, saw nothing happened, and decided to call it the sigh mirror in an attempt to be funny..... in any case

I just love being sarcastic.
dont hate me morgar
Actually Jinisis, I've had sigh mirror for several skill levels now. Its one of those spells ments get at skill 18, which I passed quite a while back. Add on top of that the fact that I'm casting it at skill 26, thanks to my lori staff and one has to scratch ones head in amazement that such a ep eating spell would be so useless.

I've hunted Undead City, with sigh mirror on and found myself getting roughly the same number of reflects as provided by the red robe, which is only a skill 10 psi mirror.

As far as your futile attempt at sarcasm goes. Well it was a nice effort. C-, but we'll give you a slight grade up to a B for effort, and you did manage to spell your name correctly. Kudos! :D

I'll stand by my original comments. A 100 ep spell that works only sometimes is annoying. That the reflects seem to improve with skill is good news, but I still think the number of reflects is too low.

Morgar
Image

Useful Drakkar files for Heros and Cowards: http://www.northernwebs.com/drakkar

User avatar
Ztinktoof
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:23 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Ztinktoof » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:02 am

>> Confusion(does this do anything)

Yes, it does.
Ztinktoof
Drakkars Moral Standard
Avatar (C) WIlliam Li: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/w/i/william/
KaM Guild Website: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ctanzio/kam.html

User avatar
Morgar
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Morgar » Sun Nov 17, 2002 3:55 pm

Originally posted by Jinisis

Ments
Psimirror (or Sigh Mirror)
Corspray
Confusion(does this do anything)
Healers
StoneToFlesh(prolly works, but who wants to suffer the consequences? + only one enemy stones is the baskie which has lair and on n8)
CureDisease(this does nothing or so im told)
Confusion actually does help. I like to think of it as the "OK, EVERY CRIT SWITCH TARGETS" spell. Its useful because sometimes you can cause crits to target other crits, and invariably you can make the crit that has targetted you, switch to something else.

Here's a few other spells I refuse to touch.

Imbue. Nuh uh, won't touch this one, no way. This one doesn't even have a place on my macro bar.
Enchants beyond +4.

Haste, used with reluctance, doesn't have a place on my macro bar either.
Shockwave. In nork its too dangerous, in cob, too ineffective, also removed from the macro bar after inadvertantly casting in twice in a party.

I've often complained about ments in cob, but its not without good reason, and personal experience. I have two cob crits. A ment, skill 20, and an MA, skill 14. When Morgar came over to cob the first time, he was an 18/15 and unable to touch, let alone kill anything in Timmy caves without using more zaps than was reasonable. Out of frustration I took him back to nork and grunted for another skill level (earning roughly .25% per hour paid training in places like -6), then I brought him back. His capabilities in timmy caves sucked and probably would have gone back to nork had not a few friends stepped in and helped him obtain some skill boosting psi gear.

Now look at the MA, 18/14, been in cob only about 2 weeks, nothing touches him in timmy caves and he's capable of killing crits in timmy that Morgar couldn't kill without psi boosting gear AND a 3 skill level advantage. My MA is still limited to timmy caves, but he's more survivable than Morgar was at that level, and more capable of killing & skilling at that level.

Now I finally understand how a stick can bring an 18/13 over to cob and still make a go of it. Cob is a world designed for sticks. Its that simple. Does that short change the psi users? Well I guess it depends on your perspective and what your main crit is. :D

Morgar
Image

Useful Drakkar files for Heros and Cowards: http://www.northernwebs.com/drakkar

lalasushi
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:57 am
Location: Bayonne, New Jersey

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by lalasushi » Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:05 pm

im sure u have rd gaunts or juntes, why dont u try timmy with vamps or without 3 juntes robes, ur ma is prob stacked and most ma's dont have that luxuary when they are 18/14 <at least in my time>, u say w/o ep boosting gear, rd, juntes to me same equivalent of ur powering up gear, dont say its not cuz to a ma, it matters a ton. i think both the ma and ment classes have trouble but even at skill 25 i dont do nearly the dmg of skill 25 ments

User avatar
Morgar
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Morgar » Mon Nov 18, 2002 12:37 am

Originally posted by lalasushi


im sure u have rd gaunts or juntes, why dont u try timmy with vamps or without 3 juntes robes, ur ma is prob stacked and most ma's dont have that luxuary when they are 18/14 <at least in my time>, u say w/o ep boosting gear, rd, juntes to me same equivalent of ur powering up gear, dont say its not cuz to a ma, it matters a ton. i think both the ma and ment classes have trouble but even at skill 25 i dont do nearly the dmg of skill 25 ments
Yes lala, the whole world is aware that your crit has been personally targetted for powering down. How else can you explain how you can have such a high skill crit with no ability to survive? :D

Lets see, the ment takes 10 or more espears to kill a macer in timmy, the 18/14 ma takes on average 5-6 shots, and yes, he's got red grips, swordsman armor, 2 4/4 yellows and an IV helm. Basic entry level gear in my opinion.

I'd be more than happy to wear a couple juntes robes, and have the grips. Care to kill him for me?

Tell you what Lala, build a ment to the same skill and level you built your MA to, bring him to cob and try him out. You'll be surprised at the results. Try walking in the other guy's shoes for a while, thats what I've done, and from what I can see, an 18/14 ma is better able to handle cob than a similarily equipped ment.

Morgar
Image

Useful Drakkar files for Heros and Cowards: http://www.northernwebs.com/drakkar

User avatar
Ztinktoof
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:23 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Ztinktoof » Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:39 am

>> Imbue. Nuh uh, won't touch this one, no way.

If the ment was built to do this spell, it's not a problem. But excellent twigs with all sorts of ment spells are now available. So its usefulness has dropped even more.

The big knock on imbue is a ment simply cannot use it until he can actually imbue new spells into empty twigs and bracers (skill 18-20?).

It is virtually impossible to find a useful twig that is already imbued with a disc at 1/2 the ment's power to use the recharge aspect of the spell when you first get it. Basically, a total waste of macro space when you get it.


>> Enchants beyond +4.

It is easy to get caught up in the max hits, max EPs, top gear race and loose out on useful spells, like enchant, or avoid certain lair hunts, like chipuda or uther.

I do enchants as high as I can. +5 right now. An enchanted weapon can be a big boost for smaller Nork players, and certain "A" class weapons can also benefit from an enchant level or 2.

What have I given up by not bothering to max hits or eps? Seriously, nothing in Nork. And no, I don't have Mamma scales or even a chipper staff. Don't need it. Not interested in a hunt to get it.

OTOH, max EPs is a big boost in Cob without top regen gear. So I can understand people pursuing this on their main critter. But max hits? Never found it to be too much of a problem, but you do have to understand Cob gear and maximize what is available to you.


>> Haste, used with reluctance, doesn't have a place on my macro bar either.

Haste rules. Plain and simple. Find a stick interested in hunting the same areas as you. The skill and experience gain by hasting yourself and the sticks in your party is amazing. Yes, it ages very rapidly. Ment and sticks. So all need to find sources of YPs to purchase.


>> Shockwave

Like psi-mirror, I think this is one of those spells that rules at higher levels and with the proper protection gear. At least, that is the feedback I get from ments that I know. I can't think of a time when it was used in a party though. Certainly, it has been devastating whenever I saw an NPC cast it.
Ztinktoof
Drakkars Moral Standard
Avatar (C) WIlliam Li: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/w/i/william/
KaM Guild Website: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ctanzio/kam.html

User avatar
Morgar
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Morgar » Mon Nov 18, 2002 8:23 am

Originally posted by Ztinktoof

>> Shockwave

Like psi-mirror, I think this is one of those spells that rules at higher levels and with the proper protection gear. At least, that is the feedback I get from ments that I know. I can't think of a time when it was used in a party though. Certainly, it has been devastating whenever I saw an NPC cast it.
The default icon for shockwave is similar to psimirror. In a party in pillars, twice I inadvertantly used shockwave instead of refreshing my mirror. Its not a party spell. I had one guild mate ask me to demo the spell for them when I got it. It its impressive, we went down to -6, entered a large room and I killed everything in the room, including my guildmate with one shot.

I do think that the entire list of spells for ments needs to be re-examined in light of the new party system. We have far too many spells that are designed for solo hunting and not enough spells which are condusive to party hunting.

Morgar
Image

Useful Drakkar files for Heros and Cowards: http://www.northernwebs.com/drakkar

User avatar
Drdrunk
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:47 pm

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Drdrunk » Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:21 am

shockwave can be useful in cob at higher levels, but there's not enough psicutters in nork to keep 1 ment alive, much less a party of them. :sarc

User avatar
Dragon
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:14 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Dragon » Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:02 pm

Heh a spell so powerfull you cant even stay alive after casting it sounds fun:p

Valarc
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:40 pm
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Valarc » Mon Nov 18, 2002 4:33 pm

Originally posted by Dragon


Heh a spell so powerfull you cant even stay alive after casting it sounds fun:p
At skill 27+2 I hit myself for over half my hitpoints in nork, with one psicutter (phelm) on. If I didn't have phelm, I would oneshot myself. Shockwave has limited use in cob from skill 18 or so through skill 24, in specific circumstances. Once you get skill 25 and fire boost, the damage of shockwave is far from impressive, and fire damage is more easily protted with gear and prot disc, so shockwave loses a lot of its appeal.

In aleria, where many lairs can't see in the dark, shockwave can be pretty useful for clearing zoos. Shockwave doesn't cancel darkness like other area spells do.

In parties, shockwave is worthless. I can at least protfire my party-mates, and ask them to wear fire prot gear. There's just about nothing that blocks shockwave, except cutters, and then its still going to damage everyone every time you use it. Or I could just ask my whole party to go e/e and wear beetle scales <G>
Valarc___STORM, usually found in #storm on irc, and in the pillar room in cob

**Excerpt from an actual Lobby chat session**

chance: does valarc eva leave game
Brad: valarc is an NPC
Brad: didnt you know that?

User avatar
Roland
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:10 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Roland » Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:02 am

Val,

asking your the pallys in your party to go e/e might be a hard sell <G>
SirRoland,
Follower of The Old Code
"Call what you need of me. Ask what you will of me. My sword, my service are yours !"

lalasushi
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:57 am
Location: Bayonne, New Jersey

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by lalasushi » Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:55 pm

morgar, i have made a ment, he is currently 16/14, and hes a ton better then my MA was at that size, and i didnt even get him a chip yet.... he can survive aleria caves and he nearly kills it as fast as my ma w/chi sweep lol, but he doesnt compare to psweep though.......

User avatar
Drdrunk
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:47 pm

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Drdrunk » Tue Nov 19, 2002 2:28 pm

Originally posted by lalasushi


morgar, i have made a ment, he is currently 16/14, and hes a ton better then my MA was at that size, and i didnt even get him a chip yet.... he can survive aleria caves and he nearly kills it as fast as my ma w/chi sweep lol, but he doesnt compare to psweep though.......
omg they moved aleria to cob and didn't tell me? no wonder my ment is so lost :zzz

User avatar
Morgar
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Morgar » Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:29 pm

Originally posted by lalasushi


morgar, i have made a ment, he is currently 16/14, and hes a ton better then my MA was at that size, and i didnt even get him a chip yet.... he can survive aleria caves and he nearly kills it as fast as my ma w/chi sweep lol, but he doesnt compare to psweep though.......
Just keep going Lala, lets see how well your ment does when you step into timmy caves for the first time. :D
Image

Useful Drakkar files for Heros and Cowards: http://www.northernwebs.com/drakkar

lalasushi
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:57 am
Location: Bayonne, New Jersey

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by lalasushi » Wed Nov 20, 2002 3:27 pm

i will never let my ment be desecrated by timmy, hes goin straight to upper , lol

Aurelius
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:45 pm

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Aurelius » Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:18 am

* Morgar *

i aggree, psimirror sux <g> But it works . yes, not everything will be reflected..But it reflects enough to keep you alive. ( if u know how to play that is )

and 100 eps for it is not that much..considdering the regen ments have in cob. ( cob not nork <g> )

anyways...if you complain about a spell...make it Elance...the EPs it uses should be reduced.
250 is just too much. considdering that ments espear sux totally in cob..and that lance is the only real dmg they can do..it should be around 100eps ..or even 150. but not 250.

Aurelius

Aurelius
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:45 pm

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Aurelius » Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:24 am

* Oh almost forgot <g> **

add another Totally useless disc to the list.... Shockwave

Morgar is correct..in cob its ineffective and HURTS the caster more then the enemy

and in Nork..heck it will Kill the caster ..

that is so dumb !! dunno what gave Brad or whoever else that idea to make a disc where the caster is hurt more then the critter.

i suggest a change <g>

either give ments a LOT more HPs..OR make shockwave so that it wont hurt the caster.

Aurelius

User avatar
Novae
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 4:13 am

Replying to Topic 'Sigh Mirror'

Post by Novae » Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:45 am

At least your psi mirror will become more and more effective when you get more skill....your red and reggie just stays the same, and it doesn't even matter if you wear 2 or 3, it still won't work well.
Last edited by Novae on Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
~~][, ][E ][-][ ~~

Post Reply