Subscription upgrade

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Nevyn
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Subscription upgrade

Post by Nevyn »

Brad, when the web server went down yesterday and you restored. It altered the way accounts upgraded from one subscription plan to another.

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Drewstr
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Drewstr »

I think he intended it to. It was a bug he knew about for quite some time from my understanding.

With that being said, I think it is past the time for a revisiting of the fee structure for Drak... (granted, we've all beat this dead horse a hundred times but maybe we'll be taken seriously this time?)

Brad,
As the game is currently structured, you have to run multiple accounts to accomplish anything. With the recent changes to AC/blocking, you *MUST* be in a party to hunt anywhere SDC and above. Even at 80 users online the other day, it was probably only about 15 actual people logged in. I know I myself had all 6 of my accounts online. At $25 a month, that would require me paying $150 a month for the "privilege" of testing. I'm not alone when I say I'm not doing that. Many others have expressed similar feelings. As things sit Brad, you just pushed most of your customers away. Several guild mates and friends have stated they are not paying after their current subscription runs out.

Quirks started as a "bonus" but have become a requirement, making your silver package not even an option.
This leaves paying for gold at $10 a month per account, and then if you want Upper Guild Hall (which, now that you can't even check skill at 35+ anywhere but guild hall, you'll need an additional $8 per crit). So if you have 1 crit on each account that is higher than skill 35, you must have guild hall now, which puts you at $18 per account. At $18 per account, you might as well pay the $25 for platinum. Chances are, you have multiple crits on that account who are of level/skill that you need guild hall, making platinum a requirement.

NL2/Test Server/Sullen Keep are all Platinum Only. Making it a requirement to pay $25 a month per account just to continue playing, as pretty much all of us had been 85/40 for a few years now on our "main" accounts, and all of us have started numerous side accounts just for something to do, most of which are also at 85/40.

See what we're getting at here, Brad? You've created a game that now requires you run several accounts at a time just in order to play/advance. Then, you created a fee structure that requires you pay $25 a month per account just to continue playing. This isn't gasoline. We can, and will, stop paying.

My suggestion:
Do away with silver. No one (or very very very few) use it.
Gold should be $4.95 a month.
Platinum should be $9.95 a month.
Do away with individual guild hall subscriptions. if you need/want more than one guild hall on your account as it sits anyway, you're better off paying for platinum.

Think of it this way: At $9.95 a month, I'd leave all 6 of my accounts subscribed. Even if I forgot to cancel them, at $9.95 a month I probably wouldn't really care about auto-renewals on my card. At current prices? I'd cancel my account after every month just to ensure I didn't get auto-charged if I forgot what days each account renewed.

I personally have cancelled all 6 of my accounts. I'm not paying $150 a month for a game. That's a car payment. That's gasoline. That's food. If I wanted to pay that much a month for entertainment, I'd move to Vegas. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way, and I'm not the only person who has cancelled. Several of your "long term" players have done the same. Lots of the recently returned players have also cancelled.

Please reconsider your pricing, Brad. And please, Drakkar people, voice your opinions. If no one voices their thoughts on this, no one will listen.
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by godspeed »

i would agree, and i just cancelled my subs also as i usually play alone, and it is impossible for me to even make it to level 80 solo these days... it is too bad tho, as i really love the game and the people playing it. guess ill have to be a lobby and chat whore like Ironclad these days =\

qmtu
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by qmtu »

Agree completely with Drew.
I keep 4 accounts active on platinum.
They will be expired at the end of the month.
I'll either try silver for a while, get discouraged, and quit, or just quit altogether.

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Teh_Cheat
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Teh_Cheat »

I agree that the price is very steep for Platinum.

I'd love a $5 Gold/$10 Platinum plan with the removal of LGH/UGH slots. You could always try and offset the difference by introducing some sort of feature that offers timed-based experience or skill bonuses for a fee.

Some examples:

3X EXP/SKILL over 7 Days for $4.95

3X EXP/SKILL over 30 Days $14.95
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Drewstr
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Drewstr »

I completely agree with John.

We understand that this game needs to be worthwhile for you as well.

Other games have followed the same model, offering a store of sorts that allows you to purchase boosts, exclusive items, etc. I would not be opposed to something like that at all.


My initial post may have come off a bit standoffish. I didn't mean to sound that way at all. We appreciate all the work you have put in lately, and really enjoy helping you build and grow this game that we all love.

Thanks for being so open to suggestions and feedback, Brad!
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Nevyn
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Nevyn »

Guys, give the man time to do something or anything before the forums explode. I am sure Brad is aware that the economics of the situation allowing us to afford multiple accounts has helped keep Drak alive. He can surely see how many accounts we all sub.

Nevyn
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Nevyn »

Pay to win is always a bad idea IMO, but give him a few to think about it. This all originally happen whe he altered the cost to upgrade and he has been aware of it for years now. He could have made this change back at any time.

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Teh_Cheat
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Teh_Cheat »

I disagree that pay to win is always a bad idea. It's helped keep many games in the past sustainable. 10 years ago, I would have agreed with you completely, but the market has changed. It now has become routine to pay a little extra for an extra benefit.

I can't tell you how much I've spent on extras on my battle.net account between Warcraft, Hearthstone, and Heroes of the Storm.
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Nevyn
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Nevyn »

drakkar is not those games and does not have the population those games do. Drak is populated largely by people whom have been playing it for 10-15+ years and has a relativity low percentage of new players joining the player base.

Subs will generate more capital for the game over the long haul

max|pic
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by max|pic »

Hey brad,
I thought I would add in my 2 cents. The upgrade glitch that you allowed to stay in the game so long has been instrumental in keeping us old players around.

We are the ones that always come back when we go and are your most stable customer base, but most of us have other bills that unfortunately supercede paying for drak. So being able to pay for 3 months platinum for 35$ previously or 4.95 to 6$ for platinum for a month recently has been the only reason alot of people have stayed.

Personally, I have a wife, 2 kids, soon to be 3. So I cannot afford to pay 150 a month, so if nothing is changed I would be forced to quit. There are alot of others out there in similar situations to me.

Prices need to be changed. I know you will do prices on drak as you see fit, but here is my idea for it.
silver - free so people can always log in and help on hunts
gold - 3.50$ a month.
Drop guild hall entirely.
platinum - 7.50$ a month.
Thus would allow for people to set accounts to platinum and still afford to play, and have others that will keep to around on free silver or cheaper gold.

I know this is your hobby and it takes money to run it, but at 18$ for 1 character or 25$ for an account to gain quality gains with the need for multiple accounts, I do not think many could afford the fun that drak has brought all of us these many, many years.

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Drewstr
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Drewstr »

Nevyn wrote:drakkar is not those games and does not have the population those games do. Drak is populated largely by people whom have been playing it for 10-15+ years and has a relativity low percentage of new players joining the player base.

Subs will generate more capital for the game over the long haul
No one is saying that subs won't generate capital. However, other games, (and Drakkar could be more profitable on this model I feel) had great success with a combination of the two. Let us have a $10 platinum plan (hey its more than the $5 upgrade-bug everyone has used for a long long time), and give us the option to pay for "perks". I would. I'd gladly pay $10 a month for each of my accounts, and when growing secondary crits spend an extra $20 or so to get some boosted gains. We already have the option to pay for a name change (something world of warcraft has done for years). Expand that. Let us buy some boosts. I wouldn't even be opposed to the option to spend some money on item boosts (this one might get me in trouble, let the debate begin!) but I'd pay some money to get an extra +1 on an item, or a special enchant of some kind, etc. on top of my subscriptions. I know others would do it as well. Heck, World of Warcraft even lets you "buy" a boosted character. Something like that would probably bring in a lot of former players, and maybe even some new ones.

If this is all about revenue (and lets face it, that's life) I can guarantee you Drakkar would see a boost in revenue if he lowered subscription prices, removed the guild hall costs, and then gave us the option to spend additional money on in-game content. If you could get a gold account for $5, or a platinum account for $10, I know lots of "old" players would return just to mess around and check out the changes. I know several former players who have stopped in, talked in lobby, talked in IRC, said they're interested in where the game is headed, but will not pay $25 a month to experience it.
Last edited by Drewstr on Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Teh_Cheat
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Teh_Cheat »

Nevyn wrote:drakkar is not those games and does not have the population those games do. Drak is populated largely by people whom have been playing it for 10-15+ years and has a relativity low percentage of new players joining the player base.

Subs will generate more capital for the game over the long haul
The EXP/SKILL bonuses would be on top of an existing subscription. I'm not advocating a completely F2P model. (Although I do think opening up at least Nork1/Cob1 for unpaid accounts would be a fantastic idea at drawing old customers back)
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Drewstr
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Drewstr »

Teh_Cheat wrote:I can't tell you how much I've spent on extras on my battle.net account between Warcraft, Hearthstone, and Heroes of the Storm.
I could tell you, but it would make to me sick to my stomach. I've changed servers and factions so many times its sad. Haha. And mounts. Ugh. Too. Many. Mounts. :oops:
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Darge
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Darge »

I'm not going to tell anyone how to run their business, but as for what I'm willing to pay across multiple accounts:

Gold: 3-4$ a month
Plat: 6-7$ a month
Individual UGH slots: never

I do believe the silver access to the game should just be free.

I'm not going to pretend this doesn't present issues of its own.
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Nevyn
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Nevyn »

Drew, what you are describing is currently what Is in the game. You can feel free to pay $5 for your account to play silver or pay an additional $20 on occasion to play it at the plat level and gain skill and exp faster..... but you don't like the current structure.

Simply what everyone has gotten used to is the plat sub cheaper and that has allowed us to play more accounts and continue to build. Lets be honest, drak unlike those other games does not see constant updates. Brad does not have the time. when you have maxed out your account, that's done why should I keep playing? Oh yea I have 3 others to build characters on. In addition the game is made much more engaging and fun when you play several at once. We are able to do that due to price.

While you may have $60 per month easy, with an additional $20+ to drop any time, that's prob not most.


Buying items and crits and special items is a bad idea. Selling Item skins maybe a good idea. $20 for a special skin on a weapon etc. but the funds generated from this will be 90% collected in the first 1-2 months, again small player base and we are maxed out on item graphics. Keep in mind how small our player base is, you see 40 accounts on, and its prob 8-15 people.

Games that make cash off their store as you describe release new content into it on a regular basis.

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Drewstr
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Drewstr »

Nevyn wrote:Drew, what you are describing is currently what Is in the game. You can feel free to pay $5 for your account to play silver or pay an additional $20 on occasion to play it at the plat level and gain skill and exp faster..... but you don't like the current structure.

No, what we have now is a requirement to have platinum in order to advance. You're able to pay $5 a month for your account if you don't want to do anything but run around in empty scenarios that no one is in (who plays in NL1 anymore?) or check your skill if you're above skill 35, gain quirks (which are essential to the game now), or tie a talon to your account so you can turn it in (did we forget about that?).

What we're advocating for is a $10 fee to play the same game we're all playing now (which, if you factor in most have only been paying $5 a month for plat, switching it to $10 would double his revenue... or, you know, change back to $25 and then lose all revenue) and then the option of paying extra for a week, or two weeks, or whatever, of increased gains on certain crits or accounts.

luckyman
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by luckyman »

My two cents...

When i recently came back i saw all my friends were only in nl2 so i put platinum full price on one account then 2 and stopped there. When i heard a out this "glitch" you know what i did? I went and paid for 6 more accounts. Sure you get less short term from me but 5 a month encouraged me to pay friends accounts. One to boot was Drew and look what happened he came back and paid 6 accounts. The price attracts us old players brad and keeps us around. It also makes us pay for more accounts increasing your lobby activity making it look more attractive to new players.

Minimus101
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Minimus101 »

I sure wish I new about this glitch. Just spent 50$ today ( to enable myself ) and I don't feel good about it mainly because they are 85/40 casters and cant progress efficiently while things are in test. Sure wish I waited so i got more bang for my $. Since this glitch is a known thing to the administrators I find myself frustrated that its not common enough knowledge that I could have participated.

I mean no disrespect and enjoy the game very much. I'm looking forward to the future.

Nevyn
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Nevyn »

Hwang, this has been around since myth and you were well aware of this at that time, or just intentionally blind, as it was/has been openly discussed in chats with you in them for years.

Minimus101
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Minimus101 »

Nevyn, your disregard for me having ejected you from the guild is no excuse to lie. Furthermore, I have never paid for plat till now, nor was it discussed in our chat. I still have the logs. I'd appreciate you not addressing me in such a way.

max|pic
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by max|pic »

Lets get back on topic.
Brad, it would be nice to hear from you on this?

Most of us bitch, moan, and complain from time to time.
We quit, we say we will never come back, but we do.

I am currently having a ton of fun testing and exploring new content, so I do not want to have this come to an end.
We all know that we have to help play for the game we love, but pricing without the glitch is not where it should be.
Drak is a great old game, but it is not a solo game.
People have adapted and use multiple accounts, but the price to pay for enjoyment is currently too high for most to see paying, or too high for some to pay period.

I could pay for 2 accounts at 25 each, but it would limit what I could accomplish in the game.
Then you compare it to other MMO games with free or 15% for 1 account where you can accomplish things solo with better graphics. It is a no Brainer for most, which is part of the reason drak does not attract new players or many older players.
But the outdated graphics and design is part of the charm, we play for nostalgia and connecting with old friends from 15 years ago.
So please give us some feedback on your plans, because as it stands, 85% of the population most of us grew up with no longer plays, and 10% of the last 15% might need to call it a wrap soon as well.
If this is the end and things do not get changed, it has been a pleasure.

Serefin
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Serefin »

With the new buff to platinum susbscriptions it would be good to lower the price, or leave it like it was, while I agree totally with the other issue of 3 months being fixed, which I didn't even know about, at one point I paid over 100$ a month to play to run 4 accounts, it's just not an option for me anymore to spend that much. It would be nice to play with just 1 account, but as you know most people run multi, so without my main 3 up and running I feel almost useless with no healer or mt, which I literally am in the new area, even with my main 3 I have to use friends to help out, and 75-100$ a month just seems too much, even though it is optional, it's really not once you hit end game. Since you are planning to buff long term subscriptions for platinum it would be a good time to think about dropping the price, that way you can choose to get the benefit or not, so if it does go towards a massive buff benefit with long term platinum, people can opt out not to recieve that for a lower price and lose out on the benefit. Otherwise, I can honestly tell you I won't be playing anymore, and more people will quit, which I hate to say because I love the game, just not 75-100$ a month type love. The price doesn't match todays gaming experience.

NL on 4 accounts 200$, reasonable for an expansion, the seasonal cuts are always nice, made me make more accounts, but the price to upkeep them becomes a burden.
Plat when it first came out 75-100$ a month.
Total cost of playing over the years, I don't even want to get into, lol.

The easiest solution would make NL2 available to everyone instead, if you do change the way platinum effects the player. That is a pretty huge buff, what you said was going on the test server. Just leave off the other benefits such as party points, quirk gain, skill speed, etc.. Basically turn it into a CAlleria/CCob type thing.


This kind of needs to be addressed because I know people who haven't resubbed due to the change. If you dont' plan on making a change you better rush Sullen Keep testing because the player base of testers is about to drop.
Last edited by Serefin on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Drewstr
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Drewstr »

Bump.
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Teh_Cheat
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Re: Subscription upgrade

Post by Teh_Cheat »

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but is it possible to hear your thoughts on the matter, Brad?
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