Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

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Mantorok
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Mantorok »

I love that damage numbers now show. After 15 years or so of playing, it's nice to finally see that halberd is not grossly overpowered. However, after cataloging most Nork-side weaponry, it's pretty easy to see that there is not only a deficiency in most type of weapons, but that the power range of weapons is very skewed as well. For example - there are only three shortswords available in Nork, and the strongest one (the recently added silver shortsword quest) is comparable to the silver longsword you get from griffons, which in turn is comparable to that black staff that drops in fisheries.

My concern is that, as a new player, this game already has a steep learning curve. Early game itemization is all over the place, with some classes of weapons having no variety or mid to high level weapons. As a new player, I'd hate to pick up maces as my favorite weapons only to later realize the best one is mid-tier and everything before that (level 15) doesn't even hit as hard as that black staff from fisheries.

I propose a re-tuning of Nork weapons. Slight damage adjustments to make a more gentle progression towards higher level items as well as adding a weapon or two to fill in gaps. With this weapon tuning and availability, players would be more able to progress more smoothly more independently. I left out a few weapons (Uther Broadsword, M-4 Ninja lair katana) as they as I have not tested them and they are not feasible to obtain or use (difficulty to get/alignment).

Below are two examples of re-tuned weapons (all base damage is approximated... well):

LONGSWORDS
Iron Longsword
OLD DAMAGE: 1-8
NEW DAMAGE: 1d8 (1-8)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: n/a

Steel Katana
OLD DAMAGE: 1-8
NEW DAMAGE: 1d8+1 (2-9)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +1

Steel Longsword
OLD DAMAGE: 4-16
NEW DAMAGE: 2d8 (2-16)
OLD STATS: +2
NEW STATS: +2

Gnoll Broadsword - Req. Level 8
OLD DAMAGE: 4-35
NEW DAMAGE: 3d8 (3-24)
OLD STATS: +4
NEW STATS: +3

Silver Longsword - Req. Level 8
OLD DAMAGE: 2-22
NEW DAMAGE: 3d8 (3-24)
OLD STATS: +3, Silver, Glowing
NEW STATS: +3, Silver

Improved Silver Longsword - Req. Level 8
OLD DAMAGE: 2-31
NEW DAMAGE: 3d8+8 (11-32)
OLD STATS: +4, Silver, Glowing
NEW STATS: +4, Silver, Glowing

Volcanic Iron Broadsword - Req. Level 13. New item, see below.
"You are looking at a volcanic iron broadsword flecked with red stone and set with two large emeralds. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition.
OLD DAMAGE:
NEW DAMAGE: 4d8+16 (20-48)
OLD STATS:
NEW STATS: +3, Glowing, Proning
NEW QUEST: NPC requires new, rare drop from RD (dragon emerald or pristine scales?) and a heavy iron broadsword (gnoll broadsword).
NOTES: This item is to fill in the gap between low level longswords and Slicer. As it stands, there is nothing. Level 13 is the longest level in the game for a new player (due to Hit Doc) and having a decent weapon to use through this level would be fantastic.

Slicer - Req. Level 15
OLD DAMAGE: 27-57
NEW DAMAGE: 5d8+24 (29-64)
OLD STATS: +4, Glowing, Proning
NEW STATS: +4, Glowing, Proning

Silver Saber Req. Level 18
OLD DAMAGE: 26-93
NEW DAMAGE: 7d8+40 (47-96)
OLD STATS: +6, Glowing, Silver, Power
NEW STATS: +6, Glowing, Silver, Power


SHORTSWORDS
Iron Shortsword
OLD DAMAGE: 1-6
NEW DAMAGE: 1d6 (1-6)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS:n/a

Steel Kenuki
OLD DAMAGE: 1-6
NEW DAMAGE: 1d6+1 (2-7)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +1

Ruby Shortsword - New item, see below.
"You are looking at a fine steel shortsword with red gems set into the hilt. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 2d6 (2-12)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +1
NOTES: Bought in VT store (20k) along with other, similarly classed weapons. This is to give newer players with some cash a weapon better than a starter weapon.

Ghost-steel Shortsword - Req. Level 8. New item, see below.
"You are looking at a translucent steel shortsword. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 3d6 (3-18)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +2, Glowing
NEW QUEST: NPC requires new, rare drop from N-3.5 ghost (ghostly metal) and a lightweight, steel shortsword (Steel Kenuki).
NOTES: Inspired by the ghost-touch line of weapons in D&D, this weapon provides an early upgrade for low level shortsword users. As it is, there are only three shortswords in Nork and this helps to fill in some gaps and provides gradual progression.

Improved Ghost-steel Shortsword - Req. Level 8. New item, see below.
"You are looking at a ghostly steel shortsword, seemingly drifting between this world and the next. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 3d6+6 (9-24)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +3, Glowing, Returning
NEW QUEST: NPC requires either money or a rare drop to upgrade.
NOTES: Following the improved Silver Longsword quest, this weapon allows a low level shortsword to be usable for a few more levels.

Silver Shortsword - Req. Level 13.
OLD DAMAGE: 2-23
NEW DAMAGE: 4d6+12 (16-36)
OLD STATS: +4, Silver, Glowing
NEW STATS: +4, Silver, Glowing
NOTES: Current item given a small boost in power given the difficulty in obtaining (killing two lairs, one of which eats and is not easily accessible). Having this shortsword with this damage range helps make shortsword a viable weapon to use in Nork. Insert previous comments on Volcanic Iron Broadsword and level 13 here as well.

Leviathan Shortsword - Req. Level 15. New item, see below.
"You are looking at a weighted steel shortsword with a hilt wrapped in turtle scales. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 5d6+18 (23-48)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +5, Glowing, On-Contact STUN(15)
NEW QUEST: NPC requires leviathan egg or fullplate.
NOTES: This would add a mid-tiered shortsword as well as giving the leviathan lair use outside of getting armor for a paladin or thief. I believe leviathan's lair is challenging and unique (in water) and should see more use. The choice of innate STUN was to mirror leviathan's knack for frequently flatting assailants. If you've done this lair, you know what I mean.

Humming Shortsword Req. Level 18. New item, see below.
"You are looking at a razor-sharp golden shortsword that vibrates slightly in your hands. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 7d6+30 (37-72)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +6, Glowing, Returning, Power
NEW LAIR: Shockwave Dragon. On par with other power lairs in challenge, this dragon unleashes deadly SHOCKWAVEs instead of more traditional breath weapons. Either drops the shortsword or an item that trades for it.
NOTES: An homage to a particular humming sword in another game, this is THE high-tiered shortsword in the Nork segment. Not as powerful as the legendary Silver Saber, but still deals respectable damage for a top tier weapon.
Last edited by Mantorok on Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mantorok
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Mantorok »

No thoughts on this? I can whip up another weapon tree if someone would like to see a new take on something else. I have the power of Photoshop and can push out a new graphic or two. I'd like some feedback from players that have made that 1-18 trek a few times and how the current weapon spread affects it.

Athena
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Location: Mount Olympus

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Athena »

These are pretty interesting ideas. I've always wanted bows to get a revamp in Drakkar. My thief is bow/dagger and pretty much shelfed, since there are no killer bows and the NL one isnt that great. Oh well. :roll:
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Mantorok
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Mantorok »

Bow is tricky since it encompasses three classes of weapons (crossbow, shortbow, and longbow) with different capabilities. Dagger is pretty well off in spread and damage capability compared to some other weapon categories but could certainly use some tweaking.

I'll see what I can come up with.

Mantorok
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Mantorok »

Coming up with a new spread for bows is proving to be difficult. The current list of Nork bows, in relative order of power, is as follows:

Shortbow/Longbow/Crossbow
Mummy King Crossbow
Silver Longbow(griffon quest)/Wooden Longbow(M4 tengus)
Silver Longbow(fisheries archers)/Silver Crossbow(KM5 quest, thief only)/Silver Longbow (KM4 archers)
Champion Crossbow (N3.5 champions)
Poison Shortbow
Silver Longbow (KM5 archers)
Improved Poison Shortbow
Erodian Crossbow

The last three bows are pretty much interchangable. The residual damage of poison would make the improved poison shortbow better than the other two, even if only allowed to tick once. Prones would allow either the KM5 archer bow or Erodian bow to pull ahead of the improved poison shortbow.

All in all, there's just a lot of repeat weapons of near similar strength and there is little correlation between the difficulty to obtain a bow and its actual usability.

Mantorok
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Mantorok »

Sorry for the delay in the update. Here are some re-imagined bows.

I split longbows apart from crossbows and shortbows. Longbows have a hide penalty and therefore do not make good thief weapons, where crossbows/shortbows incur no penalty. With this in mind, longbows deal slightly more damage and have attributes that other classes might appreciate. Crossbows and shortbows deal slightly less damage (comparable to a shortsword) and have abilities that might appeal to thieves.

Also, for this spread to work, all archer bows should become no-drop. This means the classic silver longbow is only obtainable from the Smithy NPC as a reward for killing a griffon.

Also, the champion crossbow should also become no-drop. While a nice perk for thieves (thief only), it's much stronger than anything else available at level 1, and is also incredibly easy to get. It is stronger than any mace or hammer you can currently get before Smasher, for example. Or similar in power to Kaxx's dagger, if you count its ability to prone.


LONGBOWS
Wooden Longbow
OLD DAMAGE: 1-8
NEW DAMAGE: 1d8 (1-8)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: n/a

Recurve Longbow - New item, see below.
"You are looking at a heavy oak recurve longbow. This item is in average condition.
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 2d8 (2-16)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +1
NOTES: Bought in VT store (25k) along with other, similarly classed weapons. This is to give newer players with some cash a better starting weapon.

Silver Longbow - Req. Level 8
OLD DAMAGE: 1-14
NEW DAMAGE: 3d8 (3-24)
OLD STATS: +3, Silver
NEW STATS: +3, Silver
NOTES: This is the silver longbow you get from Eventine in the Smithy.

Improved Silver Longbow - Req. Level 8. New item, see below.
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 4d8 (4-32)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +4, Glowing, Silver
NEW QUEST - NPC requires a silver longbow and cash.
NOTES: Same upgrade route as the current silver longsword, as both weapons come from the same lair.

Serpentskin Longbow - Req. Level 13. New item, see below.
"You are looking at an oak longbow adorned with the fangs of a naga. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 5d8 (5-40) OR (20-55)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +4, Glowing, On-Contact VENOM(5)
NEW QUEST: NPC requires new, rare naga drop (naga fang) and a heavy wooden longbow (Recurve Bow).
NOTES: From this bow on, longbows feature some form of On-Contact discipline but lower base damage to compensate. This will make longbows an attractive alternative to classes with less attacks (healer, thief, MA) while still scaling moderately well with those classes that do have higher attacks (paladin, barbarian).

Black Dragon Longbow - Req. Level 15. New item, see below.
"You are looking at a jet black longbow fashioned from the scales of an ancient black dragon. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 6d8 (6-48) OR (28-72)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +5, Glowing, Proning, On-Contact ACIDBREATH(2)
NEW QUEST: NPC requires new, rare black dragon drop (glowing scales).
NOTES: This On-Contact ACIDBREATH would be single target damage, as suggested in my post on re-imagined mentalist spells. See /viewtopic.php?f=76&t=7992


Psionic Longbow - Req. Level 18. New Item, see below.
"You are looking at a massive silver longbow streaked with gold, pulsing with psionic energy. It is bathed in a faint amber glow. This item is in average condition."
OLD DAMAGE: n/a
NEW DAMAGE: 8d8 (8-64) OR (44-100)
OLD STATS: n/a
NEW STATS: +6, Silver, Glowing, On-Contact PSICRUSH(2)
NEW QUEST: NPC requires new, rare drop from Reggie (psionic gold) and a silver bolt.
NOTES: The high-end nork longbow. Designed to deal melee damage comparable to Slicer longsword, but with the added PSICRUSH damage (~36 damage).

shizuo
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:05 am

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by shizuo »

It seem that there is a lot of changes from the old and now. Well anyway I want to collect all powerful bows in game.

Sneekydude
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Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by Sneekydude »

Totally missed this post!

I really like that idea.
I do not know if this ties in but I really like GK2 over my killer hally (maxed) Can we increase cob weapons to compete with NL killers to give us more options?
I really loved my LAZ dagger its blue!!
Maybe CCOB lairs can give stronger weapons??

Overall I second this idea of redoing nork weapons
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poodoo
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:49 pm

Re: Re-Tuning Nork Weaponry

Post by poodoo »

I like the idea of needing parts form the Naga for a weapon.. The naga seems to be one of the most ignored lairs in the game. Didn't she use to be accessible from N-4?

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