Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Back

If you have an idea post it here
Veega
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Back

Post by Veega »

I've played for years, but I've also left for years and came back multiple times. The game just gets unappealing, I LOVE Drakkar, but the few problems there is forces me away from the game. The diehards that still play and know me will argue, but you have to look at how many people are playing and how many people leave and come back just like me, then some just never came back.

I would love to come back right now, but I get on every other day and see TEN players and decide its not worth it again.

Contribute to this thread, I don't want a big huge debate, just give your best SIMPLE solution to bring the game back. Here is mine.

1) Do another welcome back event, 1 month free to all previously paying customers (don't bother with the gold HP it was too stressful on Brad)

2) Get rid of Alt 1. Nobody wants to play it anymore. Give all players access to Alt 2 free, the players need to not be divided anymore.

3) Make Aleria and Cob FREE to play

4) Take away the 50$ NL payment

5) Make NL require silver/gold subscription, it is literally the only factor KEEPING people playing the game long-term.

6) Add some new content to somewhere other than NL, postpone all NL updates until the game is back on track. The diehards CAN wait.

7) Give a better incentive to pay for a guildhall early on, quirks help when you are primal but quirks aren't that great the first year you play while learning the game, and people won't pay for silver/gold until they want NL so it would be almost the same as paying for gold/silver now, and would attract more customers that are newer and still earn profit.

Veega
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Veega »

Also WabbitMonster's suggestion needs seriously considered.

http://www.kingdomofdrakkar.com/forums/ ... =15&t=7647

Mid-Level Gear, the same grind is too monotonous (wabbits thread is too wordy and probably scared people away)

It would help to have a few other things people could wear even if it was the same as another item or very similar. People could wear what they think looks cool to them. (and im not talking about putting fashion into drak, just differentiation)

Brad
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1855
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:46 am

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Brad »

I think the "removing" nork 1 may be a good idea.

I've been considering moving towards a more traditional F2P approach, where one or two scenarios are free, and free players just have character limits / coin limits, etc. Growth rate is slowed compared to pay players, maximum levels, etc.

Aleria as "free" is interesting, not sure about COB though, that may remove any incentive to pay.


Big thing drakkar needs to survive is it needs to move off the existing platform / code base so that it can expand and have additional content added to it. I've made two really expensive attempts at this, and am working on a third now.

Veega
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Veega »

Even if 95% of any new players want to be cheap, the remaining 5% will still pay you to play after they find they like the game. The ones that won't will eventually quit.. You really have nothing to lose, it's like making Drak a trial game because later on you need to pay for NL and everything, but the problem is players aren't allowed to grow enough in the game.

The more people, the more people will pay because more will stay and continue playing and be required to pay later on if they want to keep progressing. New players don't get to see how fun the game really is so a lot of the time they have no idea what they're missing.

you could make Nork/Aleria/Cob free, then make NL p2p (and cnork and ccob), and just make GH benefits better so the low lvls that want to pay can pay for that instead of gold/silver... This would make a lot of people who have to pay later on and already have GH pay for both because they are already used to paying for the GH benefits and it will be seen as one of their normal charges to play the game rather than an extra benefit they don't need when they consider going paid.

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:51 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Merlin »

All of your suggestions hinge around price and costings etc..

That's not the contributing factor to why Drakkar is dieing.

Brads view on your cost arguments; "you cant get cheaper than FREE" which I agree with him.

The whole gaming world has evolved and Drakkar is struggling to keep up with it, at the end of the day like it or not drakkarzone is primarily a one man band, with limited resources/time.

I am an old player who like many others comes and goes, these days the main reason I don't play(and the rest of OWNS) is the time required to complete the amount of experienced required 78+ and the lack of reason to complete this.

Removing the time factor from the game, takes away the accomplishments many others have already worked to achieve, its a tough call in a sticky situation.

At this moment in time there is 169 members in the drakkar facebook group, which just goes to show, even all those oldies(which most of drakkar population is) are still interested in this old game, which I dare say will always be an interest.

Drakkar has a certain something, a spark or flare which other games dont have and cant compete with, but most of all what drakkar has that makes it stand out from the rest is the community and people that play it, if you remove this then there is no reason left to play.

I still keep in regular contact with Cobra, Tirith, Pancho and others from OWNS which I have no doubt if there was a reason to come back there is also people that they keep in contact with who may just follow.

Because drakkar has become so stagnated and the player base is so diluted its hard to do something to bring it all together, I see the efforts made with Cnork/cob and cant help but think whats the point?

Yes its had limited success because it presented the very thing players like about drakkar, the early game/cob which has excellent content, which NL never had.

Where to go from here? i dont know.
Elessar: karbeck is a sweety

Veega
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Veega »

that's the thing merlin. we all played the game, we all did almost everything we can do. once your characters are almost all maxxed out, of course its going to take forever to keep growing them.. the old players can play if they want but they need to not be selfish. gotta think about the games future, new players.

Manapua
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Manapua »

I am a returning player as well. I played in the early/mid 90s until EQ came out.

One big thing that I believe would help "new" players and "return" players is if the Drakkar website were updated and contained some basic and/or advanced information for players.

There is a big difference in play quality between someone who stumbled on the game (friend recommend, whatever) and someone who knows how the mechanics function. A new player will fumble thru 10 year old posts on these forums, might find Tantheus, Roar or Seville's pages and try to get a clue on how gear/max hp/lairs work but more the likely that new player will die often with no understanding of how the character works and quit. Even the information on the few sites that are out there is mostly very old.

Brad, if you cant afford to pay someone to do it...find someone with a lot of knowledge and give them free game time or the like to do it for you. Update the drakkarzone website to anything other than what it is right now. Have sections with player submitted guides on classes, lairs, whatever.

If you are lucky enough to get a player in the door thru random luck, current player recommendation or publicity you need to keep them. People will not stick around to be frustrated over and over by deaths, finding out they have gimped their character or when they come to the forums and see that 99% of the posts are 8+ years old.

I am sure there are some of the old school players with enough knowledge and love of the game to help you get a current website and some guides going.

Veega
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Veega »

^ I agree with that.

One more thing I thought about while showering was how permanent an account is once you pay for it Brad.

The game becomes more tedious and boring because we pay for an account in order to play the game past the basic nork (most pay just to not be in alt 1 if they wanna cough up the money) and maybe a few of us stay and continue paying because we like how our characters went. Sometimes though after we already spent some time on the 4 characters we just don't want to delete them in case it was a mistake.

If nork/cob/aleria (the parts of the game most fun that really make the player stay attached to drakkar) were free, it would also let people make new characters and just play for fun. We are limited to 4 characters on our single account. We should be able to make new accounts and start over and grow the character without it being so hard. We are limited because we HAVE to pay just to play. We can reroll but that takes away a lot of work. If I made some mistakes on one of my characters and made a new character and he turned out being better than my last one, I'd play that new character and would eventually pay for him. Nobody wants to invest in a new character with real money knowing it might just be a waste, on top of the wasted time.

The problem with this is multiple instances are allowed.. Why? So 1 person can log 5 peoples accounts? Removes the only social factor from the game?

- Remove the ability for multiple instances of the lobby to be run
- Make Nork/Aleria/Cob free (NL, cnork, ccob for paid)
- Remove Alt 1
- MAYBE some little content additions
- Update the website
- Welcome Back Event
- Consider more ideas for the future

?

Veega
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Veega »

and about skills / exp.. you could limit the skill cap for free accounts. Instead of 30 it could be 15 for example, and the lvl limit could be 25 instead of 50. This could be discussed a lot more as well.

qmtu
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:24 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by qmtu »

I agree with making it more affordable to play or try the game out. You want to get people in the door and playing, instead of overcharging the people who are already paying. Especially the guildhall costs per character, is going to have to go.

I feel that challenge nork and challenge cob is like recycling already existing content, and make it harder, to keep the bored top end players in the game. I think the effect of this is going to dilute the already small playerbase into 2 smaller groups of people, which is going to leave fewer people to play with, and will still result in people leaving.

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:51 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Merlin »

Make a scenario that follows on from the Cobrahn storyline, this needs to be something to level the playing field, in the same way that Cob did when people first went there.

And it needs to be done right, not drip-feed like we get with everything else.

Like qmtu says, recycles content will entertain people for a limited amount of time, but your just further diluting the player-base and thinking short term, which will inevitably fizzle out when people max out and do everything.

Drak was always good because there was always something to do/achieve, once people accomplish that there is no goal or focus remaining.

I liked the fact there was 10 lairs that I couldnt kill until I worked up to be able to kill them, it was something to aim for. Top end there is nothing like this anymore.


My argument may seem a little one sided or biased towards larger players, but I assure you I am in no way being 'selfish' its just hard to view the game from a different perspective. I saw alot of old players leave for reasons above. I didn't have much to do with new players coming and going and I'm hoping someone else can provide their views on that matter.

I suppose my overall point it, that a solution is needed to make everyone happy at both ends of the scale or drakkar is going to continuously bleed revenue in the form of paying customers.
Elessar: karbeck is a sweety

Scooter
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:40 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Scooter »

:lol:
Last edited by Scooter on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Mars
Admin
Admin
Posts: 3550
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:44 pm
Location: Evil is Everywhere

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Mars »

I'm not here to bash any ideas, because I think any idea will cause thought. it may not be implemented, but may lead to something that can be.

As far as changing anything/most things to free, we (yes, I mean players) must consider that this is a business (a one man business), there are expenses to keep it on the net. If the revenue source(s) dry up, so does Brad's ability to keep it going. Any loss/change in revenue must be considered in this light. I agree, Drakkar is not a cheap game to play (I've been paying for more years than I care to remember), but I still pay.

qmtu
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:24 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by qmtu »

We understand that he has to charge the smaller playerbase more per person to play, but this is not a model for growth. You should charge less to attract new people to increase the playerbase, which results in increased return. If you overcharge the existing playerbase, not only will you not get any new player, but you will lose existing players.

Daegoth
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:30 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Daegoth »

dont take down alt 1...instead use that hardware platform for unleashing The Original Drakkar....put skill back the way it was. Lets relive the game as it was intended decades ago .


Classic or IEN/MPGN style Nork segment and The Pit ..and nothing else.
2 character slots on each account.
Only one account logged in at any one time .
Paid Subscription required or not doesnt matter to me .


Daegoth

Freddie
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:35 am

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Freddie »

Classic or IEN/MPGN style Nork segment and The Pit ..and nothing else.
2 character slots on each account.
Only one account logged in at any one time .


This is kind of what challenge is like except harder. I think I speak for most of us there when I say we don't want to see it expanding into NL. Most of us did our time in NL and didn't enjoy it much. It would be cool to see the game expand along with something similar to cob/nork not NL. Most players love cob, so why not add on to it or expand the game in that direction? Make the caps raise for this new area according to it's difficulty. Challenge is great because it's harder and you also don't have NL geared players to come save ur hide when things go bad. It brings back the fun of the earlier game we all remember and miss.

Maybe there could be a way to allow regular drak players to come over to challenge? There would have to be a big lvl/skill penalty for this though and wipe all abilities that would then have to be re-trained so nobody has special abilities they normally wouldn't. Maybe (if their character is above these) have them come over at a max of 18/15 with pre-set hp/ep maxes determined by Brad. They could then get a feel for challenge nork and move onto challenge cob where it's much harder. With a new segment along the lines of cob there, you won't have NL geared players coming in and defeating a senario not designed for players of that size/gear.

2 character slots per account? Why?
Only one account logged in at any one time? Very bad idea and this would cause a drop in about 3/4 of his current subscriptions. Why grow one character to the cap taking a lot of time when you can grow 2 or help grow friends that aren't able to be on as much as you?

Freddie/Vrolok/Alderic

Daegoth
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:30 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Daegoth »

I personally never played classic drakkar ( I was an ien/mpgn player ) but I think having just the 2 crit slots would avoid gear grinding/collecting . Its fine having gear ...I like gear too ! But having that type of storage ( same with gh and ugh ) it just trivializes part of the game .

You die..you get rolled , no biggie ! Just get the second full set of gear , drink a major and back to grinding .

I think preventing multiple instances of the game will prevent 'army of one' play and lean more towards group play the way it used to be. It will also take away the security blanket to some extent in that you wont be able to have that bigger crit logged in near or with your new crit while grinding.

Because I missed The Pit ...I think it would be a hoot to have that to look forward too .
I used to hear bits and pieces about how totally insane that segment was .

Limited Storage and 1 Account logged in at a time brings things back to what a multiplayer game was meant to be back in the pioneering days of multiplayer games .

I do understand that ch nork is what Brad and the crew decided ..but its not the old game . Its the new game stripped down with increased difficulty . Im playing it now , I am not complaining . I am just making an observation and saying its not the game that pioneered online gaming .

Risk ...limited storage ..not having xp/skill spoon fed to players ...a community of players ..not a handful of players playing a community of crits is what I remember Drakkar many years ago .

Terrel
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:36 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Terrel »

I think the diversity of opinions posted here highlights the need to approach this from a multifaceted angle, if the goal is to grow the game.

I'd suggest there are 3 primary angles that need to be addressed, with the 3rd further dividied:

1. Financial
2. Marketing
3. Game play
a. low to mid-levels
b. 50 to end game

Because I'm certain that everyone is giddy with anticipation, I'll elaborate on those in separate posts! ;>

Terrel
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:36 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Terrel »

1. Financial

This needs to be approached from 2 points of view: the player's and Brad's. In some places those two views will intersect, and I'd suggest that the more they intersect, the better!

From the player's perspective:

$10/month. Same as most of the MMORPG's out there! So let's see, for $10, I can get 6 or 8 slots in a game with fantastic graphics, a plethora of deep storylines, a truly huge world, regular game updates, thousands of options on equipment, and lots of folks to play with. No extra fees! (Note that the free to play model mentioned before is obviously different, but as I haven't played in that model, I can't comment on it!)

OR..

I can pay $10 a month for 4 slots. The graphics are, I dunno, kinda 1990's! A single good storyline with a few offshoots. The world...hmm..maybe it seemed big in 1995, but now? Gee...two expansions in the last 5 years (small ones). A few gear choices, but everyone is kitted out the same way, mostly. Not allllll that many folks to play with. What? You want me to pay an additional $7.50 so I can gain skill faster, regain lost hps, and get some more locker space? Well, maybe...wait...what? PER SLOT?!?

I imagine Drak doesn't get a ton of looks from potential new players, but when one finally stumbles upon it, you can see why they may go with one of the standard MMORPG's!

Now I'm going to pretend I'm Brad....

"This game costs me X to run. I'm not attracting many new players. If I cut prices, I may pick up a few players, but probably not enough to cover costs and make it worth my while."

Soooo...

I'd make the following suggestion to increase revenue from the current base:

Figure out what the average paying player pays each month. Is it gold + 1 UGH slot for $17.50? I dunno. Figure out what the average is, though, and then come up with a plan that incentivizes the average player to pay a wee bit more. Let's go with the $17.50 figure and think through it...

Will I pay $40/month/account for gold/ugh on all slots? Nope...crazy talk. But instead of the $17.50/account that I do pay, I'd be willing to pay a little more if it was attractive enough. Say, $7.50 for gold, $5 for a UGH slot, or $15 for all 4 slots to have UGH. I'm happy, because now I have all 4 UGH slots, and I'm only paying $5 more/month.

I'm not going to fall on my sword over those proposed #'s; they can be played with. But there's certainly room for changes in the pricing structure which would make the players happy, and which would bring in more income at the same time.

Win-win!

Tirith
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:45 pm
Title: The Raging Darge
Contact:

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Tirith »

Not to argue any valid points but its sorta like comparing apples to oranges, You mention other mmorpg out there with better graphics, etc are $10/month... The playerbase is also at a point the likes of I think drakkar has not even seen in its heyday. You have 2,000 people paying $10/month, thats $20,000 a month revenue. Sure you are looking at server costs, etc. But they have a development TEAM. Drakkars development TEAM is 1 person, with a few volunteers dedicating a couple of hours here and there, its not really a TEAM effort.

I like your idea Terrel, but i think others are wanting the whole package and not paying but 5-10 a month. I think a more realistic option here is a plan above gold that gives the ugh to all slots.. Call it the Platinum plan for 20 or 25 a month. That gives a value and may make more players bump up their subscription, however only if there is a reason to play and thats where we come to content.

The problem with content i think is that the development tools (term used loosely) are outdated. Its not easy or simple to develop for the game, I've heard the map editor has crash bugs, hard to add new graphics to the map editor? perhaps, there should be simplified tools for creating content, ( i know a developer who thought he could do this for drak but as with all things from volunteers, it didnt lead to anything, maybe interest can bring them back) With some simple tools, content could be developed by a team of maybe 3-4 people. Dedicated players who are more than willing to volunteer time to put things into the game. The content could always be reviewed by brad before adding it to the game. Also I think the lands (cob, aleria, nork) are full? i recall pax mentioning having to remove from some part of cob to add to it. Need a fix to that.

Terrel
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:36 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Terrel »

Tirith wrote:Not to argue any valid points but its sorta like comparing apples to oranges, You mention other mmorpg out there with better graphics, etc are $10/month... The playerbase is also at a point the likes of I think drakkar has not even seen in its heyday.
You're not arguing; you're agreeing with me! :)

A potential new player is NOT going to pick Drak, even if he stumbles across it!

Terrel
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:36 pm

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Terrel »

2. Marketing

Tough topic!

Keeping in mind the # of active players here is probably never going to approach 2,000 again!

A wiki has been mentioned before, and it's a good idea. However, it needs to be developed! Since there are sites out there that have done most of the work already (ROAR, BORED), perhaps they could be leveraged.

I've mentioned before, more should be done to trumpet the fact that Drak was the first graphical online morpg. Make that a focus...in the splash title!

I don't know that posting ads everywhere is effective, because, as mentioned in a prior post, the avg. player isn't go to pay to play Drak when he can get more for his $ for any # of games. But steal an idea from the big boys; Refer a Friend!

Refer a Friend need cost nothing. Instead of giving credits for time played, offer in-game rewards. If I recruit Jimbob, and he subscribes for 2 months, give me something along the lines of: a skill level, or 50 quirk points, or 50 party leadership points, or a stat increase of 1 point up to 26. Again, I'm not married to any of these rewards, but the point is that those are the types of things that would appeal to all existing players, would bring in additional revenue and players, and would cost next to nothing.

User avatar
Merlin
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:51 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Merlin »

Brad half implemented the refer a friend idea already, he didn't pursue this any further.

I would love to see Drak with 2000 active players and I'm pretty sure Brad's bank account would have a fit!

My average subscription was Gold + UHG 1 slot, which I recall was about $17.50 for $20 I'd be happy to get Gold +UGH 4 Slots but its not the money that caused me to leave.
Elessar: karbeck is a sweety

User avatar
Mars
Admin
Admin
Posts: 3550
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:44 pm
Location: Evil is Everywhere

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Mars »

Terrel wrote:2. Marketing

Tough topic!

A wiki has been mentioned before, and it's a good idea. However, it needs to be developed! Since there are sites out there that have done most of the work already (ROAR, BORED), perhaps they could be leveraged.
.

There is a Wiki, Please get with Infinity ( I don't have the URL at work). He would love to expand it.

Infinity

Re: Drakkar is going to die... Suggestions to bring Drak Bac

Post by Infinity »

A wikia was created for Drakkar by me, it was criticized by a few because they didn't like the format Wikia uses. No one visits or even tries to add anything since then (1 year ago). However, Wikia has many game genre lists that this Drakkar Wiki can be added to to draw traffic for anyone looking for a similar genre vs. having a Drakkar server-based Wiki inhouse and hope for a hit.

It contains 99% of the Help File. The Help was displayed as an index and as a list. I added some screenshots, the History of Drakkar back to its days running from a college server with references, FAQ from the homepage, even pictures of the original install discs.

I intended to add more information but I will only add so much. What the sysops can add is only what Brad has revealed (vnotes, announcements), whatever public knowledge was provided by him. The players must contribute the rest as far as item information, spoilers, etc. Look at it as free hosting space for your Drakkar-related site (with the caveat that it can be altered by others).

As it's supposed to be an impartial and unbiased Wikia, I nor any contributor can use it to advertise the game even indirectly, per Wikia. It must be about the game itself. That's how Wikis are.

Try it out, take a test drive, kick the tires :lol: .

http://kingdomofdrakkar.wikia.com/wiki/ ... akkar_Wiki

Edit: I'm posting this and just saw Mars' post :P

Edit: Another complaint made here was the ads that display on the bottom and the right. If you are a registered user for Wikia, these vanish and the most you will see is a bottom banner with other similar Wikia. This is a plus since we end up displayed elsewhere randomly.

Post Reply