System for players to kick/ban from lobby

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Quaternion
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System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Quaternion »

It seems to me fairly often players come into lobby to say rude and or abusive things just to annoy people. Most of these times people get banned by sysops, however sometimes sysops aren't there and these players manage to continue in dz for far to long.

Would it be possible to implement a player controlled banning system. Perhaps the system could work as follows.

1. Players apply to have a utility to 'vote' for a ban and in doing so agree not to exploit this.

2. When some one starts being abusive in dz you use the utility to vote for ban and when you use perhaps the dz could see a warning. E.g.

'Quaternion you have recieved 1 of 3 player warnings'

If then two further votes are cast the player could recieve a ban for a few hours which could be reveiwed by sysops when they become availible.

3. This utility could possibly be used to ban free accs only, as it seems mainly free players that do this.

What do poeple think of this idea? Would it work?

Quaternion.

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flisk
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by flisk »

having players ban other players is simply too open for abuse.

If someone comes in and is saying rude things the best thing to do is:

1) contact a sysop

if no sysop is there

2) put that player on ignore and email a sysop

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Quaternion
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Quaternion »

I thought the way in which I constructed the use of it had enough safety checks so that it wouldnt be abused. Firstly you have to apply for details agreeing to abide by the rules, an applications could always be turned down. Secondly several players have to agree on the banning which again limits the abuse. Thirdly the ban should be logged so that if reviewed it is found players abused thier priviligde it could be revoke and or suffer a ban themselves. In this case It seems to me the scope for abuse is quite limited.

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flisk
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by flisk »

So 5 guild members and myself are hunting, someone comes into our area and we assume he looted something.

We all char in mirc and decide to ban him.

there are 6 of us, so he gets baned.

In actuality the player saw us, stopped and said "hi" but we never saw it because of the combat scroll.

So we just did a ban on someone who did nothing.

And now a sysop has to go through 7 player logs plus the "ban" log to see what happened.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as a good thing.

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Quaternion »

1. The system i suggested is not for 'in game chat' merely for those people who come into chan 0 and abuse. If someone is banned, it logs time, sysops go to the time at which they were banned, ready the lobby logs, no need for in game logs at all. Find that no obuse occured, players doing the banning revoke thier rights.


2. Most paid players who would have the right hunt unpaid players cant go. I did suggest possible only ban free accs, as it does seem to be free players who come on and use fould language, i haven't seem that from pay player.

3. The system for in game bannings, is currently u have to pm a sysop or email them in which case they have to log through logs anyway? Why are they doing any more than they do normally? Unless as happens now people dont bother reporting as they think nothing will be done?

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Omni »

Question: How does the ignore feature not solve the problem of free accounts spamming chat for you?

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Quaternion
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Quaternion »

It does omni, but many poeple dont use so one ends up reading a long one sided conversation going on in dz. Also they get the satisfaction of baiting people. I think i have never ever seen such event where someone hasnt responded in some way. Atm people come at certain times and are able to say whatever they like. I just think a ban sends a more solid message that thier actions are not acceptable rather than 'your on ignore list' or 'wait till sysops gets on!' I know if i was intent on being horrible or annoying people such responses wouldnt deter me.

Maybe part of the problem is I play at eu times so often find no active sysop. Are all sysops based in the usa?

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Tirith »

Meric isnt in the usa!

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Omni »

I understand your point and on the surface it sounds like an idea with merit. My concern is what other problems can arise from this. Players in the game have a hard enough time agreeing on rules about popular skilling locations, much less bans. Everyone thinks they are right and when you tell someone they may be wrong it can get ugly.

Of course ultimately, it's brad's call.

As for sysop locations, what truly matters is our available time.

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Darge »

Tirith wrote:Meric isnt in the usa!
Useless sysops have been done away with, or so it would appear.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Migam »

I am one who is known to be very intolerant of those who curse, scroll chat, spam/beg, ramble useless crap just to annoy and I wish I could k/b them.

HOWEVER, I'd rather be stuck emailing a sysop to take care of this rather than play a game where players or even myself have the power to kick/ban others without a Sysop badge on. Emotions cloud judgement and it is too easy to get players to go along and ban a player based on what is perceived. Sysops can review logs, keep track of past behavior to seperate an isolated instance from a pattern of behavior. What happens when you decide to k/b someone who had Temporal Flux items in hand or sacked... who replaces that?

I've been known to be a bit, uh, caustic at time (coughs) but if I can't trust myself, why would I trust the rest of you? :P The deputy idea was a good one that died out. If players didn't like that, why would they go for Mob Rules? As far as onesided convo, warn others what this person is doing and suggest that others follow suit and ignore them. As far as inviso paid you can't ignore, you can add them to Ignore using Windows Registry if you got the skills.

I've actually had a sysop come on within 5 minutes of my email to kick the jerk out. When I asked how many emails they received about the person, I always get the same answer... only you. All either ignore the problem, argue back but most are too lazy to email the complaint.

The only reason I dont like Ignore is that I cannot forward the chat as it is no longer seen however I'm no longer doing that as it seems to trigger Drakkar's anti-spam Blacklist and my emails bounce back. A sysop told me just tell him the Who and the When and they'll scroll back.
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Quaternion »

I can see that this idea has been shot down enough that its never going to happen but Migam I should like to address the points you made as it seems to me your concerns apply to a system of banning where single players can unilaterally ban players.

First of all I said that a player would have to apply for this so any history of bad behaviour and you wouldn't get. I do believe there are enough drakkar players who are able differentiate between what is percieved to be offensive, such as an argument compared to truely profane language. The same people should be able to withstand peer pressure so they don't just 'go along and ban'

As for a temporal item going missing I did say
3. This utility could possibly be used to ban free accs only, as it seems mainly free players that do this.
If however it did apply to pay accounts and they were rightly banned for breaking rules in dz I see the loss of a temporal item as tough luck. I also think the chances of someone being banned incorrectly, while having such an item, is remote given the safety checks put in place on the system.

Isn't this idea pretty much the same as the deputy idea which you think is good? Seeing as one would have to apply for ability to do banning. Except in this case three 'deputies' need to agree on the ban.

Saying that you have
had a sysop come on within 5 minutes of my email to kick the jerk out
to my mind bears little relivance to my argument as I am talking about times when they are not online, or not responding and non-contactable. Which does happen.

Anyway as I have said I think by the responses on this thread that this idea wont go any further. But I still think that a lack of sysops to do such bans at certain times remains a problem.

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Teh_Cheat »

My account is on all the time, and I rarely see spammers anymore. I don't even ingnore them when they do because the last couple instances a SYSOP has gotten them kicked in a matter of minutes.

Things are good now.

John__SIN

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Quaternion »

Was one this morning who took a fair while to be banned. More than enough time for me to write the original post. :)

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Mars »

I will answer the original post, as yes it was a good idea.
We thought of implementing something similiar to this as Deputies. I think I can safely say, the idea of deputies did not seem to go over very well with the community. One player ended up getting a lot of flack here in the forums long before we even considered putting names to any spot, and if we had, like sysops we wouldn't say who they were.

Best way to deal with the spammers
1. put them on ignore immediately
2. email Mars@drakkarzone.com, give me the day and approximate time (EST PLEASE) it happended and name used.
I can look back through the lobby log and see for myself what I missed and can (and have) take action then.

V/R

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Migam »

Yeah, I kinda skimmed and missed that part when you mentioned only free accts, serves me right for posting from work. Oh and I don't mean single players banning. I mean a concerted intentional effort by enough players to ban someone they "just don't like". I saw 4 kids from the same school join at the same time and were pure jerks... think they won't think it funny to start banning any new player for kicks? They were all paid accts. Also, there are some players with access to 4 to 8 accts. So "one" person can be an army enough to k/b under these rules.

Bear in mind, many of those type of free accts are paid accts with not the balls to make their statement from their paid accts. I've watched them swap in and out of accts then stupidly say on paid acct "What did I miss?". So ban them and they'll make another free acct and continue. Report them and see if Mars can lock it beyond acct.

Though I did think Deputy idea was good within reason, this doesn't compare to the whole community at large having that power even if only over free accts. I would expect that whoever selected Deputy would have the good judgement to put a person who was responsible, available, mature enough to not abuse this power and most importantly, someone who does not share their acct.

Either way, we agree to disagree.
Last edited by Migam on Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Rocky »

as much as i would love to ban people <G>

i really dont think its a good idea or that nessecary

every time i am on i see atleast one sysop and there is a good chance that one will be lurking around somewhere invis
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Uni »

No!

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Rocky »

no to who? no we shouldnt do this? or no there arent always sysops around?
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by vedwed »

No we shouldn't do this, and no there aren't always sysops around, usually when you need them most <G>
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Omni »

We're around Ved - we just ignore you :-)

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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by vedwed »

HAR HAR :mrgreen:
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Re: System for players to kick/ban from lobby

Post by Rocky »

well everytime im on i see omni but then again omni always tells me to email mars :P
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