Skill 40 + and others

[Merlin]

Working on overcoming an old code issue which prevented the guild hall trainers from training up to skill 40.

Please please please please do NOT make us skill to skill 40 in the same area; give us some variety like cob does.

I think I speak for most of the higher end of the drakkar community when I say that spending time in forge 30-35 was boring as hell, with very few valuable drops.

And I know that skill 35+ is probably going to be in gdh2(Infecteds will become the main skilling area)

Please do not make this the only area for skilling, Cobrahn was great because if offered many variety's of places to play, unlike NL with forge as the main attraction.

I know forge is big enough for 2 groups, but we all know that one semi-well played group can outkill the whole area. Save yourself and the sysops the bother of people arguing over area's and create something new and big enough for several groups with plenty of space and nice drops. And regen that’s based on the % of people hunting there (possible? I dunno)

Idea's for more drops in new skilling area:

High end brewing stuff (not just flowers)
Bear Meats
Elk Meats
New Primal's - Herbal Shock, Dark Experiment, Impailing Fragments, and that stupid bear one cant remember it - why not????
Current high end Primals
New weapons - Inc Darges new graphics
High Value gems - I like what you've done in gdh2 with these keep it up
Maybe an Auto's in the area, much like Encorma in Forge
Scrolls - I miss the clue scrolls yea they become junk after a while but they’re fun
More brewable gear - ingredients maybe hinted on brewing clue scrolls
Rare keys that open some doors we didn’t discover yet (hint, hint)
Primal Zaps - we have primal IH's why not ZAPS aswell?? I'd actually use these!!
Wandering Lairtype Crits - like Lich (swamp grey tag)
Encounters with Cavebears Brain - I like this it makes lairs more challenging


Things not to include:

NPC's with Anarchy - it’s a nightmare for mostly anyone other than a barb
Teir 1/2/3/4/5 scrolls
Crappy Weapon/Armor drops
HP regen on npc's
The experimental new Lair code - now you see me now you don't!! ta da!
Exp/skill draining attacks - we are all fed up of this one, it gets old very fast.
Stat loss - Just incase you think 'because were up there we like getting beat down on'
Deplete, Darkness, Blind - These are from early in the game, please leave them there, in NL/GDH they’re just an annoyance.
Crits with CaveBear type attacks (9k+) really, its just gay leave it out.

Finally, I see you have a new sysop, I hope this sysop is going to contribute towards development with idea's and actual implementation. If not, give people a job who actually want to help this game at the high end not just "chase the sysop with a bow" yes its great the first time, and the new guys still enjoy it, but its only so long til they get cobrahn, get handed Lori gear followed by sassy then quit the game never to return, I think some focus needs to be directed into holding onto the old guys, because we count aswell!

Back on topic, spread the skilling out and give us more than one main area to hunt in for skill.

Feedback people please

*Merlz*

[Tnem]

*BUMP*

For a change i agree with everything merlz just said

[Doro]

I agree.

I personally gave up before I hit skill 32 because it was just too boring to play that kind of game any more.

[srflynn64]

yeah i gotta agree with most here,


have also gotta mention whats been mentioned in other threads and that is with the skill/exp(barbs) that there are more weapon specs

[Brad]

Its a tough balance. I try to make it so skill can be gained at area X + new areas. As more new areas are added the post 34+ hunting areas will be improved.

I'll try my best to prevent it from being a single area.

[Darge]

Originally posted by Brad


Its a tough balance. I try to make it so skill can be gained at area X + new areas. As more new areas are added the post 34+ hunting areas will be improved.

I'll try my best to prevent it from being a single area.

Even if you ABSOLUTELY have to make it one area, it could just be made VERY large and be split up into sections (a la Clickers/Warlord dungeon) that present different challenges to certain classes (or combination of classes) and have different drops (or questers within) as incentives for people to not stick to the area their class or group finds easiest.

On the other hand, what I think is a problem equally important as area variety for skilling, is the lack of benefit for mentalist/healer skills. Sure, skilling up allows them to learn tiers, but I think it would be fair to continue giving them bonuses to disks in the vein of pre-primal skills. Maybe move in a new direction, and have X skill improve a corresponding non-combat disk. Or, down the line, maybe introduce skill req'ed quirks for more incentive.

Originally posted by Merlin
High end brewing stuff (not just flowers)
Bear Meats
Elk Meats
New Primal's - Herbal Shock, Dark Experiment, Impailing Fragments, and that stupid bear one cant remember it - why not????
Current high end Primals

I have to agree and disagree here.

High end brewing stuff for sure. I think it's sort of silly that the best a Youth/Mature can drop is a Blazing Star, while the less difficult Barbarians can drop Blessed Thistles. Even more puzzling when you consider that Barbarians already have 2 types of rewards unique to them.

On the other hand, I think items such a Bear Meat, Elk Meat, and Primal Tiers 3/4 shouldn't be made even more common than they can be, and rather other areas should have drops unique to them.

I also think it's good that NPC's have disks (tiers) unique to them, but I do agree it would be welcome to see other new tiers. There is such an unexplored field of possibility with tiers, and churning out upgrade after upgrade is not only ignoring that possibility, but very balance detrimental to the classes that don't have their older abilities phased out in the same way (Mentalists, and Martialists to a lesser extent.)

Originally posted by Merlin
The experimental new Lair code - now you see me now you don't!! ta da!
Deplete, Darkness, Blind - These are from early in the game, please leave them there, in NL/GDH they’re just an annoyance.

I may be wrong, but I think that is connected to the base creature AI that was used, rather than the new lair coding for GDH2, since they are just warping back to their lair/spawn point. On the other hand, the lair code compounds the annoyance of this existing feature, since the NPC, now damaged, can easily wander out of their area and heal to full.

On the second, I actually like that players are challenged with those types of 'debuffs' and I wish there were more debuff's like FoodGuardian's webbing, rather than things like 'UnBearable.' Although I like them, I think they should be mostly regulated to true lairs though.

[Brad]

"Unbearable" was purely named that for humor. It was part of the uniqueness of the encounter. Was it the name you were objecting to?

[Darge]

Haha, no I don't actually have a problem with the disk, name or function. On opening night, my group and I found it to be pretty funny (the 'Trapper' quest line was funny in general, to be honest).

I was more using it as a base line example of tiers that have a 'debuff' type function, since that same tier can drain EP.

But, what I'm saying is, that down the line, seeing HP/EP DoT again and again is limiting some of the cool possibilities of tier debuffs. Rather, I think disks like Herbal Shock and Wraith's Revenge are on the right path, and the two-faceted debuff that we have in FoodGuardian's webbing is absolutely spot on.

[Brad]

By the way, remember this is an IDEAS thread also... so, if you want creative things post skill 35, then toss out some ideas!

[Tirith]

I agree with much of what has been said here.

As for psi users, I have felt that post 30 skills should give some type of benefit besides learning spells, for sticks they receive better to-hit, damage boosts and such. While ments and healers do get damage boost tiers (and these are great, i love them) We still need something for post 30 skills.

I think for each skill level past 30, something like +5 ep regen is not too much but yet makes you feel that your character has improved. at +5 per skill, thats +25 at 35, +50 at 40. Or +10 per skill, but that might be too much. Also for psi users, maybe a small damage increase, such as 5%. (Ment quirks increase tier damage by 60%, so 5% doesnt seem like much. Maybe 5% boost to energy tiers at 31, 5% to fire, then 5% to ice, then 5% to energy again, and 5% to fire. I dont think pre-primal boost really help primals much. When is the last time you used energyshield or absorption?

If the caps are raised again, I feel we should have 2-3 different areas to hunt for skill. Also remember Forge is not the only place for skill gain, I did quite a bit of skilling in the bog. Please keep in mind Brad. Your high end playerbase is alot bigger now, so overcrowding in new areas will be a problem, maybe not right away, but it will become a problem not too far down the line. Between BLOOD, SIN, ASH, WOLF, and the other guilds, there are too many 75/35s to count.

[Darge]

Originally posted by Brad


By the way, remember this is an IDEAS thread also... so, if you want creative things post skill 35, then toss out some ideas!

Well...how about toying with the common way we skill.

What most of us are used to, is the 'kill millions of npcs' model of skilling that, in some ways, has stagnated. Rather, (and this is obviously going to require some code changes) introduce a hunting area where the focus is not to kill many 'weak' npc's over and over, but to face lesser amounts of much stronger enemies (aimed at party skilling.)

Then you have an area where a solid party can go, and fight creatures that might be offensively or defensively powerful enough that they be classified as mini-lairs, but retain a mid HP grade, that they can be killed in a reasonable amount of time (5-10 minutes perhaps). As a reward, the NPC would yield a skill gain higher (ignoring the skill gain caps) than what might be gained in the same time in a 'slaughter fest' skilling area. Realistically, the gains yielded will almost certainly require tuning, but that comes with the territory, and how gains are treated for people who try to mooch for non-primal skill would need to be addressed as well.

By doing this, and mixing one or two areas like it with the standard skilling model, the process of skilling can take on some variation, and challenge players who want the absolute best gains.

[srflynn64]

How about bringing an old use back - Skill books

Kill the crits and they drop skill books

Collect them up and turn them in to a NPC somewhere - could have 1 in room before barb fields or on entry to GDH2 safe area.

Each skill book gives you say .01 - .10 (depending on how easy the type the type of crit/lair killed) for the skill you train in.
Have the books tie to the Crit that picks them up - stops em being passed within the account slots and others.

This could also be a way of freeing up Forge for skill by having the 70-30's hunt GDH2 more

Flint____WOLF

[Brad]

Well...how about toying with the common way we skill.

What most of us are used to, is the 'kill millions of npcs' model of skilling that, in some ways, has stagnated. Rather, (and this is obviously going to require some code changes) introduce a hunting area where the focus is not to kill many 'weak' npc's over and over, but to face lesser amounts of much stronger enemies (aimed at party skilling.)

Then you have an area where a solid party can go, and fight creatures that might be offensively or defensively .

.. Get OUUUT OF MY HEAADDDDD

[Brad]

Okay, i've got the game responding to skills 36-40 for players.. sooo.. Now i want ideas for what we can do for weapons/hide/mental/MA abilities for those levels.

Different, fundamentally unique would be nice. I'm going to have abilities already.. but something different.

[Tuceg]

The way to go with weapons, imo, would be to add graphical affects to them. How many times have i used a mace or axe, only to see a "dagger hitting armor" animation. If you have some super flame sword, have an unique animation showing that flame sword in action, or if you have a glowing mace, have a glowing mace animation attack.

[srflynn64]

As for weapons - what would be good is to have some on contact or quest to add a on contact disiapline to it, specially if these skill bases are going to be GDH2 only.

I.e have 10% damage abs for barbs on hit, 10% extra damage for Pallys (as they just dont have enough damage per single hit), 20% extra legnth on certain base spell for healers/ments (psi boost of some sort) means they have more time to help killing than cast prots on everyone.
It could even give certain stats per the class that uses it, barbs could use a bit more agi for def, thiefs and pallys more str when doing there hits, Will or STR on ments and healers for them side skills they need.


Being my main crit is a barb and going back years from several previous threads about how a barb should act when OOC - once frothing and sk36 with a new ability, have it so they hit multi targets with a cut of say 50%. Being OOC and swinging with more than one crit on hex you are bound to hit more than one crit.

Im sure i can think of a few more things and will post when they pop in to my lil barb skull

Flint___WOLF

[Darge]

Rum pa pa pum, Rum pa pa pum...

2 options I see workable here.

1: Continue building up overbuilt killers to the point where we become so impossibly attatched to them so that the introduction of any other 'stronger' weapons in the distant future will make people scream bloody murder. UNLESS of course these news weapons also in fact require equal amounts of work, and to that, I reference to you http://kingdomofdrakkar.com/forums/view ... =40&t=4007 or simply, the majority of drakkar hates in game work.

2: So this, I propose plan B. Introduce weapons on the high end that co-exist with killers, without directly comparing in power (barbarian's weapons I mean you) but possessing of unique qualities that, depending on situation, will warrant their use in lieu of your killer. If this means inventing the 'super ultra voltron sword power weapon' enchantment and slapping that on one set of non killer weapons and a a monster or two, maybe it'd be a nice change of pace from having our precious killer bonuses.

And by that token, seriously, when was the last time you (Brad) even brought in a new enemy type with some new form of immunity on them. The brood mother getting rocked by an improved sabre wouldn't be too epic, would it? If you want to start giving us new enemy resistances to combat, then you can include 'enchantments', (a medium recipe to brew and coat my blade.) I find that acceptable, so far as is isn't rode to the grave. Even cooler, improved recipes to give us damage boosts to enemies with certain immunities. Coat blade in X, +250 damage to all Pweapon immune monsters.

But yes, back on trail, weapons with unique properties set therefor that they rival, but do not supersede their killer counterparts. I'll just wait to nitpick the final product, but, ahem at least one of every weapon type.


Tiers:
First off here, wave of good(wishitdidntexist) aside, some of the other tiers need to be tuned/fixed before new ones are put in. Just off the top of my head... Hemorrhagic Fever: what's going on here, it's ep cost is an obscene 500, for...-300/100 hp/ep a round and what might be some inconsequential debuff for 10 rounds. Reduce the ep cost to 400, the hp drain to 200, and have it give the healer back 25 ep a round.
Dragon Sting...I'd say something about it, but somewhere far off, I believe pepma wants to, somewhere down the line.

Barb:
Adrenaline: Recover 3-4 levels of zerk (including 'you increase your rage') 5 round recast.
Martialist:
Personal Insight- Self-haste for 100 rounds (It unbalances nothing)
Paladin:
Crumbling Strike: A successful strike/armor block with this tier inflicts the enemy with a DoT that damages armor condition for its duration.
Personal Fervor- Self-haste for 100 rounds (It unbalances nothing)
Theif:
Quick Footing: Increases rough terrain move rate of party members in range, improving charge and normal movement distances temporarily. 30 round recast.
Double Backstab: 2 consecutive backstabs at normal to-hit. 30 round recast.
Healer:
Entomb: Large earth DD, 10 round recast, 300ish ep.

More time on the other classes, anyway, change the way we are familiar with tiers a bit. Previously we've had to grunt hours and hours or farm X lair to get the specific one we needed. Make some tiers creatable through brewing quests, and make some tiers do things we wouldn't think tiers do, like give a 4th weapon specialization, or increase stats.