Secondary Skilling

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Avenger
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Secondary Skilling

Post by Avenger » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:09 pm

After reaching skill 30 I desided I would work up some secondary skills.

To my surprise, even at only skill 17 in MA, I can't get any skill from Alerian crits because of my level. I have to go deep into UD just to get half the skill gain I recieved for my main skill in that area. Not that I can't survive, but taking 10 hits to kill one crit to get a reduced skill gain really bites.

Paying for Gold plan and Upper GH really makes me wonder what secondary skilling would be like without them?

Who else has dealt with this? If so, did you find a way to deal with this?

:(
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Crusher » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:15 pm

I stuck it out in ud3.5.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Avenger » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:59 pm

ok..say I do that. I grunt twice as hard, 3 times as long to max out secondary. Now I would like to get my skill 5 Mace skill up, then my skill 3 Bow. By that time I will be level 50+ and will not be able to hit anything that will give me skill.

Skilling should be based not just on Level but skill in the weapon being used as well.
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landlubber
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by landlubber » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:09 pm

Originally posted by Avenger

Skilling should be based not just on Level but skill in the weapon being used as well.
What makes you believe that experience level affects skill gain?

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Darge » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:11 pm

my skill gains on ma in pillars are quite nice unpaid and im beyond level 50, im skill 16 ma only though, so maybe thats the crucial skill *Shrug*
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Avenger » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:32 pm

Originally posted by landlubber

What makes you believe that experience level affects skill gain?



Because Brad changed it to be that way. To gain skill, you have to hunt an area that is compatable with your level. What rock have you been hiding under?:p
Last edited by Avenger on Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Crusher » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:49 pm

You sure? I've never seen that before...
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Avenger » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:02 pm

ok Crush..you want to play Dumb? Let me walk you through the progression of "skilling" So that the newer players can see how easy it used to be.

A Sysop is free to edit any mistakes I make.

Back before Brad owned Drakkar, weapon skill was based on "swings" not kills. This means you could gain skill by attacking a blue NPC and not hitting. You could gain massive amounts of skill from a long lair hunt. People used to drop IH bottles to Lair crits just to keep skilling on them.

Brad bought the game and made his change to skill on the kill. At first there was a slight bug where max skill of .03% was recieved on even n-1 orcs for high level players, but Brad fixed this and made it the way it is today.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Darge » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:03 am

Avenger, you have yet to actually site some statement by brad for this. Furthermore, if what you said were true, then for f/ms to skill a weapon skill would be even worse, considering what point in their crits life most tend to skill a weapon. Lastly, there are a good number of players of large size, including myself, who have skilled secondary skills, and i will tell you that i personally have noticed NO ill effects for being a high exp level. Now, go put some coin on this secondary skill of yours, party in pillars or uppers, and you will quickly notice that you have erred. I guess i should just state it too, this isnt a flame.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Crusher » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:35 am

You're thinking of higher weapon skill effecting the amount of skill gained. For instance, skill 1 needs 100 skill points for the next skill. An orc give 200 skill points, but each skill caps the amount of skill gained depending on 1-5, 5-9, 10-14, 15-20, 21-28, 29-30, 30+. So skill 1 can gain only 10% of a skill, max. So, you gain 10 skill points per kill. Skill 2 requires 200 skill points to level, but it's still capped at 10% still, which is 20. Skill 3 requires 400, 10% is 40. 4 is 800, which is 80. 5 is 1600, but cap is changed to 1% per kill or so. You get, 16 points per kill.

So, after all that, what I'm trying to say is that each crit is worth a certain amount of skill points. When you kill it, you gain that much skill, but higher skills seem to get less skill because it takes more skill points to level.

You can go to n-1 on a lvl 55 barb and you'll get the same skill for a skill 1 weapon, as you will with a lvl 1 barb at skill 1 weapon.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Avenger » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:19 pm

Ok try this out then peeps...I'm skill 17 in Ma skill, level 45, Gold Plan, upper GH. I'm paid ahead in Ma skill. I stood in sw caves of Aleria and killed everything for over an hour with Ma skill. Went to check skill gain. NOTHING!

Now, I would like a level 19 player skill 17 as main go to sw caves in Aleria and find out how much skill they gain in one hour.

This is SOLO.

This next is for the maxed main skill peeps only who are working on secondary.

When you talk about pillars or upper, I do believe you might be mistaken. I find those two areas are generally occupied by PARTIES. I do believe you might just be sucking skill gain from members of your party and actually NOT creating any for yourself. Maybe just a little on Giants, a tiny amount on scalers, but lets face it how many hits to kill just one of those with secondary skill? I'm Just trying to shed some light. I've done testing on this, check it yourself.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Crusher » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:31 pm

Mmm, I'm thinking you're not suppose to be skilling in Aleria passed 17... Cuz my 20/17 crit gains no skill there. But Aleria's always been wierd... I say it's a bug. Prolly something bugged out while Flisk was messing with the new Alerian segment.

Btw, Skill cob, as at lvl 45 skill 17 barb, you should be able to solo SW caves or Ud3.5 for 0.01% to 0.02% per kill.

I gain 0.01-0.02% per kill at lvl 57 barb skill 20 MA. Do keep in mind this is Solo.

You're testing is flawed then, I gain 2-3% solo in ud3.5. In Ancients, I gain 2-3% an hour.
Last edited by Crusher on Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Amuziment » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:19 am

My healer is lvl 28. When I help out on a hunt,especially a Guild hunt to help smaller members getting armour and weapons needed for Ch/CC and lose secondary skill lvls, the new way things are done makes keeping the secondaries up enough to avoid the "skill suckers" from taking my main skill really sucks. It takes way too long. I do not agree that exp lvl should have anything to do with the lvl advancement of secondaries. The main skill is bad enough to advance,but to be penalized for having to reskill a seconadry makes no sense at all to me.

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by flisk » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:12 am

Originally posted by Crusher


Mmm, I'm thinking you're not suppose to be skilling in Aleria passed 17... Cuz my 20/17 crit gains no skill there. But Aleria's always been wierd... I say it's a bug. Prolly something bugged out while Flisk was messing with the new Alerian segment.
Just to make it clear, I've had no access to anything in Aleria in the live game. Nothing has been changed, please do not assume it has been.

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Crusher » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:04 am

Ah, my bad. I'd say it was an ancient bug that's always been there.
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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Fin » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:16 am

Just a thought...

I've fought with the same thing since I made skill 30. Skilling in places that you can actually hit stuff and effectively skill your weapon is a real bummer because you are spending so much time skilling in a place that gives you such a low amount of experience per kill. I'm not by any means saying that I want skill handed to me, but from a role playing point of view, your crit has been fighting in parties, in lairs, and also quite a bit solo. I would think in skilling ment skill all the way up to 30 he'd have to have at least observed his companions a little and watched how they killed things. I guess what I'm saying is that if you have skill 30 in your main skill a secondary skill should come a little easier. I'm definately not saying an extreme amount of easier, I'm just saying that in the time you skilled your main skill your crit would have had to have picked up a tip or two along the way. I think this would eliminate the problems that Veng is having skilling secondary in Aleria. From a secondary weapon skill stand point, I personally would love to see a benefit from being high in level and maxed in your main skill. On top of every thing else I just feel silly being level 37 and skilling in N-1.

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by landlubber » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:20 pm

The counter side being that psi types shouldn't gain melee skills faster than melee types do. Skill caps are the same for regardless of whether you're skilling melee or psi and for the most part, it's pretty easy to kill things that give you max yield. Especially below skill 14. It doesn't need to be any easier. It'd be nice/more fun if there were more to skilling secondaries than just #charge x 4000-10000 times per skill level, and I'd join anyone in asking Brad to add more abilities based on weapon skill (not class restricted). But skill gain is easy enough as it is, just boring.

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Fin » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:08 pm

I guess crossing class lines makes this idea a little harder to swallow. I know a Paladin can't skill mentalist as his secondary skill. So why should a secondary skill be any easier for a ment? A Paladin can't use mentalist discs. He has no psionic energy. Mentalists can't fight with the grace and accuracy that a Paladin can, but sometimes needs to rely on other skills to survive or complete the quest at hand. So in a way they rely on each other. I don't see any reason why they can't learn from each other though.

Maybe I'm taking the role playing aspect a little too far in thinking that my crit is a living, breathing entity that actively uses his skills and observes the skills of others. You get a skill gain bonus for being in a party, why couldn't you get any other benefits from your fellow party members? As I stated before, I don't want to imply that I want skill handed to me, but I don't think its that far fetched for your crit to learn from others while in a party.

On second thought though, a system that tracks his parties with others and gives him partial credits for the weapons they use in parties with him would be incredibly complicated and extremely combersome to the game server itself. So the possibilities are rather limited.

On a slightly different note, lets say for instance you are a Paladin and you are skill 30 in great sword. Wouldn't it make sense that skilling long sword or short sword would be easier for him as opposed to someone picking it up for the first time as thier primary weapon?


Just an idea I had

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Post by Stormwind » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:45 pm

Perhaps fighting in a party could earn you paid training in the skills others in your party use.
That would seem a good way to reflect what you learn watching party members and reflect that you still need to put it into practical experience. Implementation could be real tricky though.. lotta room there for abuse.

Perhaps if you are skilling in a party with a "master" who is X levels beyond your skill in the same skill it could be like taking a trainer with you?

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Pepma » Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 am

May be a bug, but when hunting with others who use say hally or psi, i gain a little amount (very little, but noticable) skill gain, in what weaponry they use. Had up to skill 9 in hally once (wardens and others felt the need to drain some of that), and skill 14 in healer/ment (gain both psi skills at once, regardless of psi class).

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Yeti » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:35 am

Barring some new change to the skill system <which would have had to be undocumented, cuz i didnt read anything about it> level does not in any way affect skill gain per kill.

I started skilling LS at level 55, and i gained skill nicely in n1, then n3, then n5 -_-

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Replying to Topic 'Secondary Skilling'

Post by Doro » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:54 pm

I agree with Yeti.

I have secondary skill growing nicely.
Beware of the mutikill types of attack, you get little to no skill.
PWD gets you no skill, etc.

Were you sweeping and not punching?
ho

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