NL suggestions for the small crits

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Hemi
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NL suggestions for the small crits

Post by Hemi »

As the current NL exp/skill system is not fair to lower lvl crits lets try a few ideas to make it better.

It’s not fair as lower crits get less skill for the same kill. People/sysops have hinted that it’s just the removal of the NL skill bonus, but 5k for a forgotten is way out of line for its placement in the game.

Lets try to see what the problems are.

Do the larger crits want the areas to be nurffed for themselves, or do they want it to be an area with unbelievable skill gains but only for the selected few?

It seems that the problem is that people believe that too much skill can be gained by the undeserving.

Solutions

Fix the illusion bug in forgotten, then only a well organize party will skill there. You can still burn, but you’d have to have combat/fire gear to live (over-gearing noobs is another topic) instead of 30 firebreaths to weaken the zoo, make it 100-150, big crits will be able to kill much faster there with high skill and booster scrolls. Make crits that can see through Liminv on all parts of NL. Make psi resistant crits everywhere, at least to the most used area discs. Especially in donar.

This will keep those who cannot really live in an area out.

If you believe that small crits shouldn’t live in an area, make it so the cant, don’t punish those who have truly worked for their gear and can play even in a hard place.

But I have a feeling that this is not what most will want as EVERYONE abuses the current system and just wants the noobs outa their spot.

And of course you can always just lock the way in to all pre 30’s, which is what most in NL will want as no one want to see there skill areas nurfed. I would hope that the ones already there would be allowed to stay

p.s. this wouldn’t be the BEST solution for me, as the areas will be harder once I get there, but it’s what’s right.

max|pic
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by max|pic »

if you are really set on trying tomake it where people can do nl at lower lvl then
i say
A) make forgottens more like mines, cant illusion there at all and
B) make them hit about like crits in keep or mines
C) 1/2 skill at 22 and gain full skill at 25
would take out people skilling pre lvl 22 or 23

as far as exp'ing make it where u could gain 1/4th exp pre lvl 20
1/2 exp pre-30

andhave dornar and forgs be like km-1 door to -2
ahve it damage them, for say 300 points every time every person pre lvl 30
Last edited by max|pic on Mon May 23, 2005 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hemi
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hemi »

Your ideas still punish people at lower Levels, is there no way to make the area harder for all and be fair?

Esper
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Esper »

I'm just going to ignore the rest of the rant.
Originally posted by Hemi

Solutions

Fix the illusion bug in forgotten, then only a well organize party will skill there. You can still burn, but you’d have to have combat/fire gear to live (over-gearing noobs is another topic) instead of 30 firebreaths to weaken the zoo, make it 100-150, big crits will be able to kill much faster there with high skill and booster scrolls. Make crits that can see through Liminv on all parts of NL. Make psi resistant crits everywhere, at least to the most used area discs. Especially in donar.
This isn't a solution, just a way to nerf ments.

Small players aren't getting punished. They're not losing anything. Just find a place to hunt that actually fits your size.

The part that I don't get it.. why didn't you post suggestions before the change that was made today? By posting it now.. it only implies that since you didn't get your way, you want to wreck it for everyone else.

Personally, I like the change that was made earlier today (and yes, I am bigger than 30/25). It allows players to experience Cob the way that they should. The 30/25 "requirement" for NL is a good number, it is the size of players who have actually done the majority of the quests in Cob.

Hemi
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hemi »

I was on vacation last week and didn’t know the changes were coming.

As for nurfing the ments, no one would be able to one shot forgottens if not for the ments so I believe that the suggestions are legitimate

As for wreaking it for everyone it implies you do want the easy skill with no risk, you just don’t want it for smaller crits?


Typo
Last edited by Hemi on Mon May 23, 2005 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Darge
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Darge »

ACTUALLY, you could still do it. Wall them up, have everyone wait outside of box, have ment pwall himself and stand on walls, do burn, then pwall everyone in. Same result, bit more work. ;)
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Esper
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Esper »

No one knew the changes were coming until this morning.

If you want a REAL solution, then post it. If you want to nerf ments, then you're better off starting another topic instead of trying to turn this thread into one.

About me somehow implying that I want the "easy skill with no risk" for myself.. no, I don't want or need the skill for myself. I just don't want smaller crits to get it :)

Hemi
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hemi »

I heard there was a conference with Brad on Friday and I should have said something then.

I’m not trying to nurf ments, I’m trying to have a level playing field for all crits that are able to make a kill.

And I would bet that just about anyone in NL has done exactly the same things we are discussing (using a ment to burn to make easy kills in an area of low risk in relation to skill/exp) if you haven’t I’m sorry for offending you.

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Pepma
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Pepma »

Originally posted by Hemi



I’m not trying to nurf ments, I’m trying to have a level playing field for all crits that are able to make a kill.

By this reasoning, then everyone should gain the same skill in n1 regaurdless of size...

Hemi
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hemi »

Originally posted by Pepma



By this reasoning, then everyone should gain the same skill in n1 regaurdless of size...
Yes, and every one does

If the crit is worth say 1k in skill points every one gets 1k in skill points, you might need 100 meg in skill points so the percent that crit gives you is small but we all get the same.


The exception is the cap, if your level has a cap of say 800 then you get 800 instead of the 1k, but this is not a cap issue it is fairly obvious that there has been a nerf placed on to the skill/exp of everyone under 30/25. One that is out of line for the kill. If it was the full uncapped amount, pre 30’s would get the same amount as say pillars if they were fully at the cap in both, it is clear that forgs is now well below pillars. There has never been a cap on exp to my knowledge (other than in parties). They are being punished well below what a capped kill would give, for a kill that they are capable of making on there own.

How is this fair?
Last edited by Hemi on Mon May 23, 2005 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pepma
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Pepma »

I said skill and not exp.

and furthermore, I'd really hate to hear you whine, when you get bigger and can't gain exp in lesser area's (which does make sense)
Last edited by Pepma on Mon May 23, 2005 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

max|pic
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by max|pic »

yea, change that =-p i wanna go back to cob
=-p

Hemi
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hemi »

Originally posted by Pepma


I said skill and not exp.

and furthermore, I'd really hate to hear you whine, when you get bigger and can't gain exp in lesser area's (which does make sense)
I know, I’ll try again

Say a kill gives .05 % but you are capped at .02 %, you get the .02 %

Now if brad thinks that NL should be capped pre 30/25 that’s fine if it’s the same cap across all scenarios (the .02 % from the example)
Not .02 % for cob, and then some arbitrary nerf to force pre 30’s out of the scenario.

I never asked to get skill in lesser areas, not sure how you got that as you brought up the example on n-1 in the first place and I was explaining the skill cap.

I’m not asking for anything out of the ordinary.

SAME KILL
SAME SKILL/EXP (adjusted for cap)

Now without flaming, explain to me why I’m wrong

If the area is to be made to hard for pre 30/25’s, make it that way
If the scenario should be locked pre 30/25, do it

But if I make the same kill as you, on my own, why should I get less than cap?


(I see you edited to add a flame, rofl)
Last edited by Hemi on Mon May 23, 2005 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pepma
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Pepma »

Thats just the way its designed, as you get larger, you get to take advantage of the skill and exp bonsuses. its like that on Banditkins as you gain levels, you get more exp off them.

Hemi
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hemi »

I’m not asking for the bonuses, only what a crit of its size should bring, if it’s too large for me then cap it.

Alas I am tired of explaining my points tonight, it would be nice to see a little support as I know from talking to people that there are those out there that think my opinion is valid but not worth their time as it doesn’t affect them.

Btw, I will not stop skilling forgs, see my friends there tomorrow, if only to claim my spot. :)

HH

Tirith
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Post by Tirith »

What you do not understand Hemi. Nameless was never meant to be a place for people to skill from 15-30. This allowed for the Cobrahn segment to be completely skipped over. Before NL came out, if you went into upper or pillars, they usually had a party of 5 or more there. Now they are usually empty because only people without NL or those who refused to play in NL would go there. That was an oversight, it has now been fixed.

Krom
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Krom »

If your truely not looking for the bonuses then youll have no problem with the change.

According Brad this is what he did in his own words:

"NL now has a "recommended" minimum skill level of 25, and a "recommended" experience level of 30. This means you are welcome to play there BEFORE then, but you will not receive any of the NL skill or exp bonuses."

You are making sweeping claims about how the system works, and ignoring most of the aspects that dont apply to you. Drakkar is like Frankenstien. Large pieces of half dead code have been stitched together and given life by a mad man. (who but a mad man gets into a fist fight with a potentially rabid bat <G>) There are pieces that even Brad is nervous to poke around in. The newest parts of our beloved monster do not resemble the older pieces in the way the skill and exp are earned/distributed. Certain things fade away ( ie skill books/psiscrolls) new less rancid parts are stitched on (skill per kill). Now at higher lvls gains increase in certain places as we lvl and diminish in certain places as well. This newest change is simply a reflection of the direction the game is going. When you get to the size that is appropriate (according to the developers design intentions) for you to hunt an area (forgs) your gains will increase.

For those that feel that most of the voices in support of the change are doing it to "protect" thier hunting areas, you are simply wrong. I recognize most of the voices and most of them (myself included) get 0 exp and 0 skill in forgs and you therefore will never see us there. I personally want to see the integrity of the game preserved. The skill gained in NL at low skill lvls was WAY out of balance with the rest of the game. It made large chunks fo the game obsolete. I dont want to see drakkar turn into a game that is burned through in a couple of months. This game is alive because of the loyalty of the long term customers, not the "faster, faster, i forgot to take my ritalin today" crowd.

Hulk
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Post by Hulk »

i myself would rather see cob used for what it was meant, a step up from nork/aleria to exp and skill, not just a bathroom shelter accomodated for on your monthly bill. the game is already boring enough at the high end, slow down and take your time in the lower end areas to delay your utter boredom...

i don't know why this is funny to me, but as i look back through the post, some of those talking used NL to get to 50/30 a large chunk of the way. but as i said in other post, guess when it's not you, it's not cool...

and the other person was right, gear reqs are too low. brad can you please tell me why bl ring is lvl 20 req and it is from last lair in primal quest to advance over lvl 55? that never made much sense to me...
Last edited by Hulk on Tue May 24, 2005 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Krom
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Post by Krom »

I dont know if you are reffering to me or not Hulk, but just in case ill throw this out. My main has never hunted forgottens and ive only used secondaries there a couple of times to help out friends who were hunting there. I also was lvl 32 before I first set foot in dornar. Even then the vast majority of my exp came from cob til close to 40. Again, I dont think there is anything wrong with using those areas; I just would hate to see forgs and dornar replace nork, aleria and cob.

Hulk
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Hulk »

why the defensiveness? i said some in post, named no names...

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Jimbob
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Replying to Topic 'NL suggestions for the small crits'

Post by Jimbob »

Yea no one is ever in pillars in uppers anymore i think they all live in NL now lol

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