Reviving Ninja class

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Shortyz
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Reviving Ninja class

Post by Shortyz »

For brad and sysops:I read the thread about how ninja classes wasnt going so well ... ill tell ya what Brad ... if i can covince/get enough good ideas and ppl like what they see .... would u mind working on this project.

By the way . let thread sit and see players reaction b4 you post plz :)

For all players: post your new ideas including what mix u think should be and what type of spells/skills/mods they should have. I no what ur prob thinking some of u .. its no use in killing a cow twice right ... wrong! ... something like this can urge, more active, etc etc for players to do things with ... try fresh with something fresh ehh??

I have played and beta tested MANY diiferant mmorpgs .. and i work for one also ... if u must no .. a GM for EQ. Some of the games i tested/played were FFXI, Rubens of Eventide, Deloria (beta tested for 1.2 think it was), EQ 2 (beta tested), EQ and alot more.

My ideas are as followed:

Ninja class (Thief/MA) (Throwing, LS/SS/DAG)

Skills can be as followed:

~Charge
~Power Strike (Like pallys strike but more deadly due to fact of Hide+Charge)
~Power Shot (Using Throwing star, daggers, etc)
~Shock Shot (Not ne thing like L hammer where it hits everyone on same hex but where it damages single mob instead)
~Flame strike/shot (Not ne thing like ments FS where it hits everyone on same hex or around it but where it damages single mob instead)
~Backstab (Same as thiefs BS)
~Ice Strike/Shot (Not ne thing like ments IS or IB where it hits everyone on same hex or around it but where it damages a tiny bit but also lowering movement rate)
~Ninja meditaion (Cant think of a nice name sorry) (Ninjas get a gain depending on lvl of skill in thr ep regen)

-^Ninja attack styles^-
~Quick attack style (Fast attacks but lacks by lesser damage)
~Slow attack style (Slow attacks but attacks harder then what u do normally)
~Reposite Attack style (Kinda the same as Pallys parry but instead of just parrying it also attacks back)
~Drunken Attack style (You can attack like 2-4 times in a row with having same as with no attack style but ... after u attack u have a stun limit)

These are just some of my ideas .. got alot more for ya brad/sysops ... but these should start .. i got to take a shower lol ... smell like my work (Little ceasers .. w00t .. PIZZA PIZZA!!)

if u like players ... PM me on miroku or Darkevil and tell me what u think
Last edited by Shortyz on Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anarion
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Post by Anarion »

I would like to see this. I think that ninjas should have the same gear rules as MAs. They should have the ability to hide somewhere between the norm. and that of thieves. I'm not really catching how they'd be like MAs from your description. You have some cool ideas, but they are things you should consider. In drakkar you just get to do one action per round (a round always being about the same amount of time). So your idea of a quick attack wouldn't allow you to pick the target of every single strike, you'd have to choose to attack a single target for the amount of quick attacks in a round. I would enjoy playing a new class. I also just want to mention the 2 major complaints that people will have:
1. Brad is too busy with NL
2. It would be yet another class brad would have to adjust to be balance
So now that those two things are out of the way, people should be able to contribute to this post.

P.S. I think the class should delibertly made a little worse than the other classes, so that there'd be the fewest people crying about inequality between the classes
Last edited by Anarion on Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Darge
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Post by Darge »

the real problem with reviving the ninja class is, as anarion said, brad being involved with nl. Something like this would take a great deal of time to code from all the testing and balancing, not to mention giving it a role in nl. I think if brad had some more programmers sitting around who would be willing to work on this as a side project, ie not getting paid for doing it, cept maybe a bonus upon completion and implementation, then it might become more of a possibility.
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Shortyz
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Reviving Ninja class

Post by Shortyz »

Darge ... put it this way .... if he gets another class ... and its tied to cob, aleria, NL and ppl wanted to progress in it ..... they would be paying for it correct? ... which means ... MORE MONEY FOR BRAD lol ill be happy to work on this project myself if brad gave me access to it lol

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Roland
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Post by Roland »

I hate to be the devil's advocate on this, but of the things you mentioned, sounds as if your suggestions are the best things about the existing classes, all wrapped up into one class.

Your suggests would greatly devalue thieves as we know them , simply cause your suggests for ninja are basically just a thief crit with a bunch of new attacks that undo the thieves current weaknesses. The fast attacks are basically the same as MA rapidpunch, what healer wouldn't like to be able to FS entire zoos, instead of just what's on one hex? what pally wouldn't like to be able to attack the same round he parries?...See where I'm going? Most of your suggests involve the existing abilities, with their penalties removed.

Imho, I don't think drak ever needs a new class. Other things could be done , such as Brad has done, by expanding the existing abilities of existing classes. At most, perhaps, change things slightly so that thrown and bow and axe are more viable options as primaries on crits. There's tons that he could do with bow and thrown, to make them more desireable to focus solely on , by players.
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Yeti
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Post by Yeti »

not that a new class would necessarily be a bad thing... theres just really no way to impliment one that wont step on the toes of an already existing class.

Put aside the lack of time brad already has, and the amount of work it would take to code/impliment/test/balance this new class

and you will still have alot of peoblems simply because, as roland said, the abilities will end up being modified versions of existing abilities with either more penalties, making them useless, or with less penalties, trivializing the already existing and well established abilities

-Yeti
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Chimera
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Post by Chimera »

I think the idea is pretty cool other than the time it would take :D
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Longbeard
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Post by Longbeard »

Hello :-)


I don't know about Ninja class from the ground up because there are just such evolved "step-ladder" systems for each scenario in regards to classes that play them.
It seems to me that to put in brand new class that people could dedicate to in Nork school be nearly impossible.

However here is a though, allow for advanced classes in NL some where past level 50, possibly even keeping it for past 70 for post NL hopefully! <g>

Thief class should be able to go into Ninja class gaining something and forgoing distinct thief gains from that point on.
For example, from that time on, no more thief tiers, rather increase in weapon skill, allowing for skill like parry and multi strike, with enchantment for characted defence (or offence! - make it into ninja only quest, by completion of which character int's self becomes +3/0 or +0/3) ability to spec throwing or bow up to 2 times over quest at appropriate exp level.

MA could go into Samurai class gaining something, and forgoing distinct MA gains from that time on. That would allow for armor and several no more then3 types of weapons that would use MA skill and be MA only and would only work if characted is Samurai.

Just some ideas i quickly typed up at work, dont judge me too harshly guys :-)

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Gasthrax
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Post by Gasthrax »

for the ma type moves on it they could keep the pool and shield, for theif keep hide and backstab. Imo any more than that is a little overpowering.
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lalasushi
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Post by lalasushi »

pool has zero value in NL, my majorpool is only 1k pooled above my base hits because all the nl hps dont pool.

shield has next to zero value because crits hit for 1k and i think majorshield was speculated to give ES as high as 40.....

not class waring, just pointing that out


Its not really viable to pick a few things to leave ma's with because all they really have is JS and RP, with the exception of NL tiers of course (which would be forgone according to the other posts).

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SpaceGhost
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Post by SpaceGhost »

Did you read what he said? Not MAS a new class that mas may go into, one of brads problems was not being able to add new discs which are hardcoded so he came up with tiers for the new senario. If he were to add a new class it would probably need to be highend if it was going to use specific new skills or the otherway would just be a combination of existing skills.

lalasushi
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Post by lalasushi »

yes i did read the post, the Gashthrax stated that certain abilities should remain with the ninja from each class, bs+hide from theives, pool+shield from ma's, but i stated that pool and shield have no relevence in the upper levels of NL so it doesnt really bear any relevance in the creation of this hybrid class.




for the ma type moves on it they could keep the pool and shield

So quick to flame someone who stressed in his post that hes not trying to cause balance/class wars.... thanks space ;) . wish i knew who u really were hehe

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Gasthrax
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Post by Gasthrax »

well i have a few things to state:
1.) How would a pure ma feal if every good chi he possesed was given to a thief class.
2.) Thieves have pretty low hp so Shield and Pool could be that "life saver"
3.) With the discs i posted were just ones that already exist. I assume brad has an imagination and can come up with more "usefull" ones. I dont get paid to think so i rarely do it. :P

If it went the way your going with it brad would probably weaken the discs buy around 25% so it would kinda kill the purpose..
Last edited by Gasthrax on Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lalasushi
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Post by lalasushi »

shield and pool are never lifesavers, ive never been in a situation where pool saved my life other then perhaps some megas where i survived the first hit....

Why pick the worst ma skills and then take the main theif skills, that was my question, bs+hide are main theif used skills other than tiers.

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Gasthrax
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Post by Gasthrax »

Well ninjas probably would use either SS, LS, or Katana type weapons. That kills rp and js. The new class could have maybe really good blocking with whichever weapon they choose since both MAs and thiefs depend on agil. If you like RP and JS so much as you do, then stay MA :P
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lalasushi
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Post by lalasushi »

dont mind if i do



ps. pointless post, woot!


:p

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Pepma
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Post by Pepma »

I believe constitution is a better stat for an MA to "depend on"


Pepma

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PieterPost
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Post by PieterPost »

I like most of the ideas for the ninja class, but I think these topics are kind of fruitless. I'd be surprised if a new class was implemented EVER, especially with some hard work yet to be done on NL. Don't mean to be a party pooper, just being realistic.

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Sand
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Post by Sand »

I figured I would post something, nothing important, just ideas.

F/M wasn't that hard to make, was it? Give a ment Fighter HP's and a reason to use a different weapon besides staff (as a main mind you, not 'for fun' skills.) I'm not expert on what F/M's get or whatever, so don't shoot me down if I'm not 100% on what I had said.

My ideas on a Ninja class, if made.... would be somewhere on the lines of maybe increasing damage to mug, so it actually did something besides off hex steal. I can't say I use mug any other time then on a Laz hunt, Hag, etc. The damage would be based on MA skill I guess, considering the fact hands have to be free.

And Lalasushi, I agree Pool may not be a life saver for most parts, but if a ninja class was implemented and a theif could dedicate after he recieved tiers. That could be a plus. Don't know how pool works, but if I had an extra 1k HP, that would save me quite a bit of IH when tasting.

I'm not opposing anyone's opinion, but stating my own. There's nothing wrong with idea of a 'new class' and Brad doesn't have to drop NL to play with the class either. It's his game so let him do what he wants. I think mainly, people posting just want him to acknowledge their ideas on them and think on them maybe for distant future, that's why there is an Ideas section in forums...
Last edited by Sand on Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dragonslayer
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Post by Dragonslayer »

Pool works like this (at least minorpool does, for the other just raise the amount of rounds and % hits gained)
You stab your macro, get stunned for 3 rounds, and after that have 150% hp, the hp's are 600/400, so not healable, and in fact get removed when you try to heal.
You know the expression pooled hits in drak? well, that's where it comes from ;P
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Sisco
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Post by Sisco »

Think this is a pretty good idea.Not only does it bring more diversity to the game, it brings more curiosity. i actually thinkwhen anyone thinks of a martial artist anyway they think of a stealthy ninja which would be Thief+MA. This has to be one of the best ideas on the forums right now.
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Dragonslayer
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Post by Dragonslayer »

Actually, when i think MA, i think bruce lee style madness, no stealth.
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Acaciam
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Post by Acaciam »

Originally posted by Yeti


not that a new class would necessarily be a bad thing... theres just really no way to impliment one that wont step on the toes of an already existing class.

Put aside the lack of time brad already has, and the amount of work it would take to code/impliment/test/balance this new class

and you will still have alot of peoblems simply because, as roland said, the abilities will end up being modified versions of existing abilities with either more penalties, making them useless, or with less penalties, trivializing the already existing and well established abilities

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MBK-Forever
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Post by MBK-Forever »

I honestly think that Brad won't add another class ever. It's more likely for him to scrap Drakkar and start on something new. And I definitely don't see that happening. <not yet anywayz> <not until he bleeds enough money outta people> (weg)

But, even if it were to happen ... Ninja just doesn't seem to fit into Drak's style imho.

Kiya138
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Post by Kiya138 »

Before Brad could implement the return of the ninja class, we need to know what the main problem was with it in the original form of this class and why it was removed in the first place. Much like the Doppleganger lair, it may cause more problems than its worth to put it back into play.

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