SUGGESTION BY REQUEST

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Merlin
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SUGGESTION BY REQUEST

Post by Merlin »

- No one OWNS a hunting area. You have exclusivity only the hex you are currently standing on

that rule sucks, we all know it, and we all hate it, why not change it.


my suggestion for a change, you own your screen! if someone else is on your screen without consent from you they are conflicting with your hunting. Becaue this 1 person 1 hex stuff stinks. I am sure people do not appreciate others standing on the hex NEXT to them just because this lame rule permits it.


Anyway's i was asked to post in forums: "if you have issues or complaints, please instead of getting upset about them; please post or email to us what would be better.
"

So this is me not getting upset and posting the problem and a suggestion on how to fix it.

*Merlz* - prooving a point
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Morgar
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Post by Morgar »

Once upon a time, in another game which strangely enough used to be called Drakkar, you would never dream of hunting on the same screen as someone else unless you and he were partied. Guilds active taught the players that this was acceptable behavior. Newbies were told not to hunt on a screen that contained another player. But alas, that drakkar is gone. Player behavior is no longer important to the guilds, and guilds could care less if their membership's actions give others bad opinions of that particular guild.

The rule of only being able to claim your own hex makes for a uncomfortable hunting style. You jealously stand on your hex guarding your pile of loot and paranoidly check it every time someone steps on your hex. You become reluctant to leave that hex to search the off hex bodies in case someone comes along, because under the current rule, you only own it, if your standing on it. I have personally watched people come in and loot every off hex kill I've made, knowing full well that under the current rules, what they are doing is legal and I have no right to complain.

Your options are very limited when a player comes along and decides to park in the same screen hunting the same crits. You can offer to party, but sometimes we're not really interested in partying, sometimes we're out for something other than skill, like looking for pots, or rares. You can fight over the crits verbally in the game or dz chat/irc. You can try to kill everything before the other player does. A ment has a few more options. A few warnings that you will start using area effect spells usually makes the other player move along. And if those fail, you're out of luck. The other player cannot be made to move under the current rules.

Does the rule need to be changed? I'm not sure, I don't like it. But we have had this rule for a long long time and the players used to teach the newbies how to behave in the game. On consolation that I used to take comfort in, is such rude players would probably not plague the other scenarios, but that hasn't been the case. I've had problems just as recently as yesterday in cob with untagged players that should have known better by the time they reach cob.

So yeah, the rule is a problem. But I'm reluctant to say it needs to be changed. I think we older players however could do more to ensure the newer incoming people learn to play in an acceptable manner.

- Morgar
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Demonaic
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Post by Demonaic »

remember a blanket policy in effect : harassment is still illegal
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Mihey
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Post by Mihey »

I am old skool; I do not hunt on the same screen as someone else unless we're on the party.
Mihey__PHNX

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Doro
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Post by Doro »

And what was the sugestion to fix your percieved problem?

Get rid of the rule?

I am sure it was put in place for good reason, until that reason is gone the rule will stay (I imagine).

I too try to party with anyone on screen where possible, or just plain leave, the call is; which player should leave ?

Should it be the one who can kill fewer crits in a given time?
Should it be the one who arrived last - what if you both arrived at the same time?
The one who has been signed up to Drak for the least time?
The lower skilled player?
The lower exped player?

ho ho you see the arguements for and against.
Last edited by Doro on Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
ho

Braindead
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Post by Braindead »

Playing a thief, I hate the rule and thinks it's rediculous. Hide, crits can't see you, so they wander, backstab and you are on someone's hex if they've decided to park where you are hunting.
I believe this rule needs addressing as well. Maybe not eliminated, but at least tweaked.


Braindead/Hermes

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Kanak
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Post by Kanak »

hehe..... I disappear from a screen so fast that people often think I'm rude or unfriendly. But thats from 20 years of playing Drak and an island now long gone. The reaction not to intrude is instinctive.

The one hex rule may be good for enfoecement by staff. An enforcement absolute rule is however different from politeness or community etiquette. If we take the time to teach players Drak Community manners, from the time they arrive, most will play with courtesy. Remember the game they played last, may not be based on Old Code social values.

Of course there are "Devils Spawn" and its unfortunate that "attitude adjustment" has been removed (both by code and game rules). Nothing gets a snerts attention faster than being stripped and left in some hole.:p

PS: As to thieves (class), its harder to spot the play screen of someone you can not see. The key indicators are splots(dead crits), dropping or green hearts. If your on a slow work project, you must make your presence know for someone to clear your area.
Last edited by Kanak on Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

And what was the sugestion to fix your percieved problem?


Get rid of the rule?
Doro, did you actually read the rest of the post?

a simple "change" to the rule not get rid of it. Irts pretty obvious we need some kind of rule, i am simply just trying to improove it.

Please read my posts before you comment on them.

*Merlz*
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Doro
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Post by Doro »

Apologies for the misunderstanding, I will try to explain my response in a more concise form.

If you don't agree with the 'on hex' rule and forward the idea of an 'on screen' rule then there will still be situations arising for exactly the same reasons as before.

Should someone form an area spell off hex then what would your rule demand?

Would you change your rule so that they stop and move further away?
The rule then becomes 'two screens' in any direction . .

Thus the removal of the rule entirely for all intents and purposes?

Sometimes my short form postings loose their original intent and appear brusque or even rude. I will try harder in future to correct this as a failing in my use of English.
ho

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Merlin
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Post by Merlin »

why would someone use an area attack to attack 1 screen away? except in strange occasions where they might be #form firebreath S S S S to kill slith. or #form earthcrush SW NW NW ?


so they would be killing something that stands still. If they are using spells and casting them a full screen away ? what use is that, they are casting a spell so they are not invis,<cept theif hidden using disc bracs :-/> that means the zoo is on theire hex, so why be killing offscreen where there is no crits? lol


yea that a weired idea, ments drag zoo's in ancients, then firebreath offscreen to kill? no i dont think so. Well i didnt do it like that, if there is some new technique being used that requires a ment to cast area spells a full screen or two away please let me know, not even sure on the cap for casting away from yourself? is it 3 hexes? dunno.

As you forming an area spel IF someone is using the current rule and standing on the hex NEXT to you if you cast firebreaht then theyre red. not a good idea to do that, IF the rule is changed so that they are a screen away they will know your using the spell and not be caught in the fire unless your hunting in some weired fashion as you said casting area spells off hex.

My intention is to STOP people hunting on the hex rght next 5ot you and stop the problem we have there, as for area effect spells, that problem would be lowered since if someone is atleast 4 hexes away from you there is less chance of hitting them with AE spells. Unlike the current rule permitting them to hunt on the next hex to you.


Make more sense?

*Merlz*
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Morgar
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Post by Morgar »

Originally posted by Braindead


Playing a thief, I hate the rule and thinks it's rediculous. Hide, crits can't see you, so they wander, backstab and you are on someone's hex if they've decided to park where you are hunting.
I believe this rule needs addressing as well. Maybe not eliminated, but at least tweaked.


Braindead/Hermes
The issue with thieves causes a lot of problems. I made the mistake of starting to trade with dion the other day. I didn't see the hidden thief and he was a little annoyed. Thieves need to know that if they want other players to take them into account, we have to see you, even if its just for a few short moments.

As to that other player and dion, I did apologize to him. I never would have touched dion had I known he was there and things were smoothed over. But it illustrates the problem quite clearly. If a thief wants other players to respect their space, they have to make themselves known to the other player.

- Morgar
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Yeti
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Post by Yeti »

"making your self known" for a thief is the equivalent of hunting an area where you have to parry almost constantly on a pally, and then dropping parry every time someone walks by.

in many areas, if a thief loses hide, they get dead.

-Yeti
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Frozboz
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Post by Frozboz »

Originally posted by Morgar

Player behavior is no longer important to the guilds, and guilds could care less if their membership's actions give others bad opinions of that particular guild.


- Morgar
Guilds are a huge problem (no sense of "guild" anymore with these alliances everywhere), but that's not the issue here IMO.

The main problem is there is no threat of recourse from players anymore. You can hunt wherever you want because there's nothing you can do about it. Bring back MPGN days of the threat of pk/strip/pop, and you'd see very well behaved players.

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Post by Freddie »

As froz said the lack of sense of guild has a big part to do with it. Back in the days it usually worked if you were hunting in an area and someone came in and saw you they would either leave to another area or ask if u wanted to party. It worked both ways if you were going to go hunt a certain spot and found a player or group in there hunting you would ask to join or leave and maybe ask them to pm you when they are done with the spot.

The problems were few then because if someone came in and started killing in your area or stealing your loot they would get a bad rep fast as a floor thief. If they were guilded chances are they would be hearing from memebers saying why is player A & B pming us about you stealing there loot? If they were unguilded and started to get a bad rep this would hurt the chance of them ever making it into a reputable guild.

The only owning your hex rule was basically put in to stop the sysops from having to answer all the emails and pm's of the newer waves of players who are getting into it over hunting areas. Not saying it is all them to blame they can't help it that the cob areas they are hunting are way overcrowed. But this led to the on hex rule to eliminate probably 20 plus emails and pm's received daily from players fighting about people stealing the loot in the area they are hunting or having people come into areas and killing things that a player or group had been hunting for a long time.

The on hex rule is a bad idea for the player base. It creates a new breed of players that take this as free reign to loot other peoples loot or to invade areas that other players are hunting. Not only does it give them this right it also protects them from responses that other players take vs them. If for example a player catches someone looting in the area they are killing and confronts them telling them to stop taking there loot and to go hunt somewhere else, the floor thief can then pm a sysop telling them player A is telling them to leave his hunting area and stop taking his loot. In turn the sysop then by the rules has to tell player A who is being robbed here that he has no right to tell this floor thief to go hunt elsewhere or stop stealing his loot since you only own your hex.

Result? Player A who did nothing wrong is scolded for trying to play the game the way its meant while the floor thief gets to take advantage of players with no negative actions taken against him. He is actually protected by this rule and encouraged to do it more.

Freddie__JIHAD (glad that when he was growing people were more respectable)

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Rosey
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Post by Rosey »

Maybe I have just been lucky but I have never come across anybody in Drakkar persistently standing next to my hex, let alone on my screen. The hunting spot should go to the person that was there first and a quick conversation with the other player can usually establish that.

The more common situation I've come across lately, is in fact the reverse, where people will take more than one floor of certain areas as their hunting ground and be reluctant to share when other people turn up.

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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose »

Well ... I hate to burst anyones bubble ... there is no recourse to justice if they loot on YOUR hex either ...

many of these cases are people that look at it in simple terms: What can they do to me if I do this to them?

even by current rules (though corporal punishment is in my blood) we can band together and list them ... AND USE the list! I have been in situation where a guild I knew well was considering an applicant that I had experience with. He was tagged anyway. It was not that they didn't believe me ...

I opened Mino lair in Frore one day to check for leather rings ... he wasn't in and someone walks right thru opening I'd made and scoops the coin off hexes ... (the etiquette for salvage rights can be discussed seperately )

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Yeti
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Post by Yeti »

psht, im glad im a ment. i can honestly say ive never had someone stand on the hex next to me without my permission for more than a few rounds, and never twice.

"oops, the crit i was hasted ECing in n6 just happened to walk to your hex, sorry"

-Yeti
If Practice makes perfect, and nobody's perfect, then why practice?
If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t more people happy?
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ZhouYu
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Post by ZhouYu »

Ya know, I don't think I've ever run into anyone who, when they saw me on the screen, didn't run off quickly. I do the same. Not that hard.

fyi, it's "couldn't care less" not "could care less" :P
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Yeti
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Post by Yeti »

what if he meant they care just a little bit, but its possible they could care a little less at a later date?

-Yeti
If Practice makes perfect, and nobody's perfect, then why practice?
If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t more people happy?
What are those little things on the end of your shoelaces called?
and finally...

If money is the root of all evil then how come churches ask for it?

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Longbeard
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Post by Longbeard »

Originally posted by ZhouYu
fyi, it's "couldn't care less" not "could care less" :P
fyi: both are used.

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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose »

Originally posted by Longbeard

Originally posted by ZhouYu
fyi, it's "couldn't care less" not "could care less" :P
fyi: both are used.
and when it is "I could care less" the intent is usually "[as if] I could care less" making the meaning the same

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Stormwind
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Post by Stormwind »

I agree with Froz and Freddie. The majority of guilds mean little to nothing these days.

Brad needs to stop trying to code ethics into the game. It will never work.

MMORPG's will never be hands-free, you need folks to understand there are severe consequences to their actions (just like real life). It is the only thing that keeps people "civilized".

I realize Brad has customer issues to consider, but he also needs to realize that his existing customers (the long term reliable ones) are slowly but surely eroding away due to the lack of attention to the short term punks who know they can get away with almost anything. I know of a few personally who have left, because "management" doesn't seem to care.

-Stormwind
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Rocky
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Post by Rocky »

ok on the " 1 hex off" hunting my view is this:
1. you need to hunt that area soooo bad that ur willing to lose ur respectablity over a few million coin and some exp?

2. if you need to hunt that area sooo bad join the persons party or offer to make one <if they refuse leave>

3. if people are going to just steal and kill from every hex except the one your on how is that fair to you... ex. in ud4 i was there with a friend for upwars of 7 hours and had coin everywhere <yeh i know stupid but still> some crit walks along takes gold and gems from over half the hexes as we are still killing and are visable on screen and starts twiging back and forth takeing stuff... finnaly we left and coined what was left but over 20 million in coins gems and transmuted items were lost... it is times like that when the people need to learn some respect and wehn they see people in an area ask to join or leave.

4. if there willing to steal our stuff why cant we pk them to let them know they shouldnt be there and we wont tollerate it?


As for guilds meaning nothing there are still a few of us that do but most of the newer guilds <or old guilds revitalized by loads of newbies> run around as a guild and disrespect others or run around guild hopping just to say somethign like " yeah i was in <guild name here> but they sucked so i left there sorry selves for <guild #2 name here> then left them for <guild #3 name here>" there is no sence of guild any more in the majority of guilds but thoes of us who do follow the "one guild... one family" idea still have eithics and band together with other guilds to fight injustices like one hex away kill/theft. more guilds need to do so and not stand by idlely and let this happen...
"To Arms... To Arms"

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Ambrose
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Post by Ambrose »

Thank you Rocky,

One of things I struggle with in terms of guildhood is the absolute defense of a guildmate. (I was out that day in junior high school when they said that you defend your friend even when he is wrong.) If my friend is gonna do something so far afield of what I know is right; then THEY are not the person I thought they were.

I guild member that shames their guild has left it by virtue of their own actions ... all that remains is for the guild to de-tag them ...

re guild hopping: it would definately slow down if the name change (tag removal) required a reroll

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Stormwind
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Post by Stormwind »

Rerolls are not a solution. You can't code a solution to this.

If folks guild-hop, it is the fault of the guilds who allow it to happen.

If you don't like the actions a person or a guild takes, don't help them. Eventually if enough folks do that, they'll go away.


-Stormwind
"Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you."

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