Thieves should be able to keep up with NPCs

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curiousredmonkey
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:02 am

Thieves should be able to keep up with NPCs

Post by curiousredmonkey » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:00 pm

Currently, a thief must waste more than half his time chasing down the NPC he tagged with BoD and Tiers. I have some suggestions to end this frustrating game play.

Two lines of thought are going into the suggestions below:
  1. My first line of thought is that the thief is not seen, so the target should not be able to run away from him. I mean the target does not know he is even being attacked, let alone where it is coming from.
  2. My second line of thought is that the thief should have more in his tool box, like items and tiers. (In fact, every class should. See Seiyria's thoughtful posts on this: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8534.)
It is not like the thief will now be able to kill huge zoos or anything. He hits like a little girl in SK and IR. It takes a thief (at his best) 1-2 minutes to kill an NPC using his best gear, highest tiers, skills 41-42, and xp 98-99. And 2-5 minutes to kill an NPC when having to chase them down, as is the current model. I would like to reduce the killing to 1-2 minutes, which is lame compared to other classes but would be a huge improvement.

Suggestions:
  • A lasso - an item held in left hand that keeps the target in range
  • A garrote - like a lasso, but keeps the target on hex and does damage
  • Spike Tiers: causes spikes to be formed around the thief. Any NPC that wanders onto a spiked hex is stuck, for as long as the tier lasts. Four tiers of the spike type become available to the thief: at 96/40 (spikes only on hex), 97/41 (spikes area 1x1), 98/42 (area 2x2), 99/42(area 3x3).
  • Trap Tiers: causes random traps to be formed around the thief. The traps should be non-damaging and designed to stick, confuse, disrobe npcs, disarm npcs, drop items (on belt, in sack, ...), etc. Anything that keeps the npcs in range and adds some random fun to having a thief in a party or even when playing solo.
Obviously, these suggestion do not make the thief powerful. It just makes them easier to play and more fun to have around.

Thoughts?

P.S. Note that if the thief is using a bow then the lasso or garrote would make that unfeasible, which is ok. And if he is using a two-handed weapon then his damage will be greatly reduced too, which is ok. It means that the lasso or garrote will be used like shield logic.

P.S.S. Brad, I really like the SK shortbow tier you placed on it. It would be cool if you could do more of that.

P.S.S. I lose 15-20% of my kills to no experience/quirks/arcanes because NPCs move so fast in random directions that they end up out of range and die often.
Last edited by curiousredmonkey on Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

seiyria
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:19 am

Re: Thieves should be able to keep up with NPCs

Post by seiyria » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:04 pm

Thieves probably should have gotten the denial tiers, to be honest. They're the ones who have the most trouble since they're often the least visible.

Brad
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Re: Thieves should be able to keep up with NPCs

Post by Brad » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:43 pm

Its a balance, the later tiers now slow them slightly, but you will need to chase them down (or use a ranged weapon).

curiousredmonkey
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:02 am

Re: Thieves should be able to keep up with NPCs

Post by curiousredmonkey » Sat May 06, 2017 8:47 am

I still lose Refuge NPCs while they are under the influence of Blade of Deceit (BoD). It is because of so many Refuge corners and the many minutes it takes the thief to kill an NPC.

Even with the reduced movement rate they can still move 3 hexes in a round, so...
  1. Hallways with corners: They move out of view regularly. By the time you click where you guess they have moved, then they can be many hexes away (especially if BoD expires). If BoD is still active, then you can still lose them - to an adjoining room or around another corner or further down a different hall.
  2. Hallway with rooms: They duck into any one of them often enough that they will end up out of view; because the doorway acts as a corner. And as you guess - did they move into this room or further down the hall or doubled back behind you - they can become lost to you because they keep moving when in the presence of a hidden thief.
Maybe it seems I am complaining about something that is no big deal. However, after spending 3-5 minutes whittling 1 NPC down and then you lose them, and then another NPC for a few minutes only to lose that one too, it builds up turning into big deal. Even if it happens a few times over the course of an hour.

Obviously, because of the random movements of NPCs not all of them are lost, but it is still often enough that I need to report it. It takes a few minutes to kill an NPC under the best of conditions and many minutes under the worst. So, I think another tweak is in order.

The reduced movement rate is a great improvement. However, I got so frustrated losing 2 NPCs back to back, just now, that I had to post something or break my keyboard.

BTW, I do use a ranged weapon but that solves nothing, because the NPCs are out of view.

P.S. Refuge NPCs designated with a _0 can be killed with one or two BoDs. NPCs that are a _20 are the ones I am speaking about, which take 3-5 minutes. My original report that started this thread was only about the _0 NPCs (I had not hunted much beyond that then). So the changes to BoD definitely helped by keeping most NPCs in view. If you are thinking about future thief tiers, then more powerful and more reduced movement would be helpful.

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