NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
I've put NL back up on the test box with a first attempt to detach effect duration from rounds.
The goal is for effects/buffs/dots to last their full and true intended duration on the high speed servers.
I picked 4 seconds per "round" as the new durations, trying to simulate round time on regular NL.
Tests:
- Throw a buff in REGULAR NL, time it with your watch
- Throw the same buff in TESTNL, time it with your watch
The goal is for the real time to be similar.
The goal is for effects/buffs/dots to last their full and true intended duration on the high speed servers.
I picked 4 seconds per "round" as the new durations, trying to simulate round time on regular NL.
Tests:
- Throw a buff in REGULAR NL, time it with your watch
- Throw the same buff in TESTNL, time it with your watch
The goal is for the real time to be similar.
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
Okay, scrap that.
Attempt #2:
- Everything back to the way it was with the following exceptions:
- High speed game, beneficial effects have had their duration increased.
- Terrain altering effects have had their duration increased (illusion, etc)
- Test: if you have haste on you of a power level > 35, ability cooldown timers are halved
Attempt #2:
- Everything back to the way it was with the following exceptions:
- High speed game, beneficial effects have had their duration increased.
- Terrain altering effects have had their duration increased (illusion, etc)
- Test: if you have haste on you of a power level > 35, ability cooldown timers are halved
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
This is broken.
F/M:
Akronium Shield is up for 80 rounds with a 100 round recast when you have haste. 600+ ES shield always up basically.
Divergent essence gets 40 round duration, 20 recast even without haste. Always up now, versus the 50% uptime before.
Psionic Diversion overwrites sk35+ self cast haste, and the haste can't be overwritten by recasting sk35+ haste. Basically makes Psionic Diversion a dead tier under this model.
Healer:
Gift of Healing and Crystalline Regeneration being up for 200 rounds takes a huge mana sink away.
Barbarian:
Without a Care and Enraged Cry permanently up, because they were 30/50 duration/recast before. Huge damage and self sustain buff always up.
An across the board duration increase isn't necessary, the following line of tiers were the only ones that needed it in the first place, predominantly because they were single target: Pally Shields, Pally Barriers, MA's Taloned Barbs line tiers, F/M Accuracy line tiers
F/M:
Akronium Shield is up for 80 rounds with a 100 round recast when you have haste. 600+ ES shield always up basically.
Divergent essence gets 40 round duration, 20 recast even without haste. Always up now, versus the 50% uptime before.
Psionic Diversion overwrites sk35+ self cast haste, and the haste can't be overwritten by recasting sk35+ haste. Basically makes Psionic Diversion a dead tier under this model.
Healer:
Gift of Healing and Crystalline Regeneration being up for 200 rounds takes a huge mana sink away.
Barbarian:
Without a Care and Enraged Cry permanently up, because they were 30/50 duration/recast before. Huge damage and self sustain buff always up.
An across the board duration increase isn't necessary, the following line of tiers were the only ones that needed it in the first place, predominantly because they were single target: Pally Shields, Pally Barriers, MA's Taloned Barbs line tiers, F/M Accuracy line tiers
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
Experiment V3
New Test Version Up (NLTEST)
- Tiers will no longer override a RESIST/BUFF ( old style ) where the protection/value of that buff is less than what the current value is, it will NOT be overwritten ( but the rest of the tier will work )
- BENEFICIAL tiers have had their recast time scaled the same as their durations.
New Test Version Up (NLTEST)
- Tiers will no longer override a RESIST/BUFF ( old style ) where the protection/value of that buff is less than what the current value is, it will NOT be overwritten ( but the rest of the tier will work )
- BENEFICIAL tiers have had their recast time scaled the same as their durations.
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
The duration/recast ratios have been restored, but ratios aren't everything, because some effects just work better the more often they can be used,regardless of the ratio being the same. Time under effect may be the same, but round to round is the important part.
Consider the following tiers being given exceptions and just operating with the duration/recast they currently have on live.
Akronium shield has an 80 round duration and 800 round base recast now, 400 with haste. That's pretty brutal for the only f/m defensive tier. But then, this one has always been in a bad spot, due to its recast.
All barb tier buffs. Having cries/sweats/without a care up for 120 rounds is nice, but the increased 80 rounds of downtime between is not. A good barb should juggle enraged cry/battle cry and without a care/sweat of deplurium on recasts, and two barbs still have full uptime by coordinating casts, but in general the change feels more punishing than beneficial for tiers that were pretty easy to manage in the first place. I imagine there's some weirdness with the Sullen Keep barb tier too under these quadrupled timers.
Also, barb tiers were benefitting from the haste reduction, when barbs historically don't work well with haste.
Consider the following tiers being given exceptions and just operating with the duration/recast they currently have on live.
Akronium shield has an 80 round duration and 800 round base recast now, 400 with haste. That's pretty brutal for the only f/m defensive tier. But then, this one has always been in a bad spot, due to its recast.
All barb tier buffs. Having cries/sweats/without a care up for 120 rounds is nice, but the increased 80 rounds of downtime between is not. A good barb should juggle enraged cry/battle cry and without a care/sweat of deplurium on recasts, and two barbs still have full uptime by coordinating casts, but in general the change feels more punishing than beneficial for tiers that were pretty easy to manage in the first place. I imagine there's some weirdness with the Sullen Keep barb tier too under these quadrupled timers.
Also, barb tiers were benefitting from the haste reduction, when barbs historically don't work well with haste.
Last edited by Darge on Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
Good feedback,
What i'm trying to look for is an algorithmic solution where i dont have to hard code variations for individual tiers. The recast times should be essentially the same as they are on the non-sped up game; ( i tried to simulate that ).
If we can't find something "better than what we have now", we can always come back to it later.
Didn't think about the barb haste issue, i'll look at that. (vile psionics)
What i'm trying to look for is an algorithmic solution where i dont have to hard code variations for individual tiers. The recast times should be essentially the same as they are on the non-sped up game; ( i tried to simulate that ).
If we can't find something "better than what we have now", we can always come back to it later.
Didn't think about the barb haste issue, i'll look at that. (vile psionics)
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
What about just using the tier buff recast as a check? If the recast is less than or equal to 5, then duration and recast quadruple, if not they remain the same.
I *think* this covers things pretty well.
I *think* this covers things pretty well.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
if the recast.. is less than or equal to 5... quadrouple.
hmmm.. help me with your logic here, not quite seeing what that does.
hmmm.. help me with your logic here, not quite seeing what that does.
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
All of the single target tiers that people hate having to keep recasting in the fast rounds have a base recast of 5 rounds and last 50 rounds. Pally shields/barriers, fm accuracy, MA damage buff.
The only classes that have aoe tier buffs equal to or less than 5 round recast are healer buffs and thief veil/fog of deceit, neither of which getting quadrupled duration/recast is that big a deal (overall mana reduction costs for healers aside).
So if the base recast is 5 rounds or less, the duration and recast get quadrupled in fast rounds. This makes the buff recast and duration about equal in real world time in fast alts to what it is in standard round speed alts. This affects the problem buffs without screwing with ones that are fine.
This also benefits brewed stat pots, which have a 0 Rd recast, and the servant of nameless/servant of graine buffs from right clicking helmets, which have 5 round recasts.
Is that more clear?
The only classes that have aoe tier buffs equal to or less than 5 round recast are healer buffs and thief veil/fog of deceit, neither of which getting quadrupled duration/recast is that big a deal (overall mana reduction costs for healers aside).
So if the base recast is 5 rounds or less, the duration and recast get quadrupled in fast rounds. This makes the buff recast and duration about equal in real world time in fast alts to what it is in standard round speed alts. This affects the problem buffs without screwing with ones that are fine.
This also benefits brewed stat pots, which have a 0 Rd recast, and the servant of nameless/servant of graine buffs from right clicking helmets, which have 5 round recasts.
Is that more clear?
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
Darge, that's an elegant solution that circumvents complications with many of the other class tier buffs. Love it
There maybe complications with thief damage tiers getting a duration buff, in addition to the Ment tiers illumnic hammer and constriction of lighting. The healer damage tiers effected are so ineffective that the change would be negliable.
There maybe complications with thief damage tiers getting a duration buff, in addition to the Ment tiers illumnic hammer and constriction of lighting. The healer damage tiers effected are so ineffective that the change would be negliable.
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
This applies only to "BENEFICIAL" flagged things anyway.
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
.
Last edited by Serefin on Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: NLTEST back on test - New Experiment : Duration
By the way, Primal Mending's recast got quadrupled, even though it's not a buff. Probably because it's marked beneficial. Really detrimental, so that one's going to have have a special case coded in, probably.
SIN
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl
My father was a wolf, I'm a kinsman of the slain, Sworn to rise again
I will bring salvation, punishment and pain, The hammer of hate is our faith
Power and dominion are taken by the will, By divine right hail and kill
trav: you bad bad girl