Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

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Brad
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Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Brad » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:20 pm

Please comment on the following:

Remove COB item barrier, so there is free flow of items between nork and COB with the following restrictions:
1) Items taken to COB, or created in COB, will not be usable by free players
2) Items brought out of COB, and used in other scenarios, will only be usable by characters >= 18th level.

The goal is to create more of a smooth flow between the scenarios, and open up the scenario for a little less frustrating back and forth.
Also, since NL items outgun COB items anyway, the need is really not there anymore.

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by FreedomsPhoenix » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:32 pm

You know at first I was pretty anti this idea but the more I think about it the more it interests me. I mean ultimately you will end up with NL gear but the cob gear should allow you to get to NL earlier.

Question I have would be can you release or give an idea of how the different gear matches up when it comes to adds. For example if you have a +1 on original Nork gear then equivalently cob’s would be +4 and then NL gear would follow at +? ? Alongside this question is the simple one does Cob gear beat or Nork gear across the board in Nork? IE you really never see Nork gear used in Cob so by default one would think once you have the Cob gear toss out the Nork gear.

Not sure if this is something that can be told or even is able to be told but I know it would help me in the transition of learning how to mix or match gear with the barrier coming down.

Ultimately I think it’ll end up being a good thing and according to one of the DZ conversations on this topic it sounds like it makes Brads life easier so why not BRING THE BARRIER DOWN!!!!!

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Migam » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:33 am

Most who won't like this idea are those who rant that NL items shouldn't be allowed outside of NL because that makes Nork lairs easier to kill, lairs are never in, blah, blah, blah. That's ain't just gear; thats knuckleheads who with their size/skill alone who can this to dump gear in portals for that LookAtMe moment. I dunno if that's still happening; not been on in a while though I'm still on gold til next month to finally hit 120 gold month milestone :) .

Then there are some who won't like it cuase there is a belief that Cob gear > NL gear and it might make NL much easier. I'd say, so what? If anything, make NL gear better then. I should be able to survive on a 65/32 FM on Mormar16 beyond having that looooooooooooooooong reuse Akro Shield up rather than get pummelled or having to haste and leech off pally. Dying every 15 minutes, fine. Every 15 seconds, not.

Cob gear is easier to get as you grow vs. having to have groups for every quest for NL gear or access. If I didn't stockpile gdh2 access stuff in advance, I'd be sol now. As a solo player, I'd appreciate anything that helps me survive in NL on my smaller slots so I get interested in playing again. Now I can be unseen hiding for 3 rounds instead of 1 round on SDC2 with 78/38 thief, woo hooo. Too much of the game is being tuned based on feedback of large guilds and groups and the game being made harder and harder for solo play. Then if made solo-friendly, large groups destroy too fast. There is no win-win til there are areas for soloplay like a solo instance that can be tuned seperately. Or make seperate areas that don't allow parties so it's not overtuned and there is no incentive to have a 5-man band live there til 100/50. I mean no party... no PWH, no 100% safe MA-AA sweeps, no having BigBoy get it ghosted so BabyBoy can kill it.

If my barb or ma can survive NL keep with nin helm, ud5 pc ammy and espear bracer and find something better for melee, I can actually kill there without having to load up another acct to leech off of. Then I can see if I can survive better in Mormar later using Cob gear. Progressing slowly from m1 to m25 solo doesn't work as you are forced to go deeper or else gain less or zero and the floors gets harder on a geometric scale while you're ability to survive doesn't. Killing the page drops with the NL quest completion make it even worse since my pally cannot farm for my wimpy ment when the time comes.

Barbs wait til 51 for better fur, ma until 70 for better gaunts, no killer (or even decent) staff, axe, bow in NL that are worth the effort, I'd like to try the Cob ones and see.

The question after this long-winded, hot-air post is: Is Cob gear better?
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Skip » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:56 pm

FYI, swampcat fur (from GDH) is lev 40 for a Barb, then Albron at lev 56.

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Merlin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:05 pm

All I can say is that, be careful when doing this because you may cause damage to the NL 'experience'

I know this because, on the opening day of NL if myself and my group had cob gear it would have been a walk in the park.

Also, allowing Barbs to rock Nork/NL with GK2 gear?!?! are you INSANE>?!!!! (I thought you hated barbs? <g>)

But in all seriousness, this could cause damage to the experience/scenario, and I don't really see the benefit?

I do agree that Cob has a much better item range to suit for the low-mid-high levels.

Is there another way to making the transition smoother?

Perhaps an NPC called 'Gearos' who takes a snapshot of you what wearing/holding and strips you, for you to retrieve it on your return? Has this request arisen from peoples frustrations at shift clicking a few items into a locker before you take a portal?
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Migam » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:41 pm

Good to know, thanks Skip. I didn't even know that fur was worth using. My barb is just Cob-size.

I threw in my 2 cents on Cob gear not exactly sure if it's superior to NL or not but I wouldn't want it to be a blowout either, destroying all. I wanted just easier, to be able to grow solo since the player base is small and my guild is ... me .

But short of expanding the mid-range experience with new alts/gear vs. living in Cob til 50, Cob gear seemed like a quick bandage but not at the cost of bleeding out NL.

I guess I'm impatient trying to grow something new from 20/18 to 50/30 in Cob after getting 4 to the 65-78 range.

Is there another option for better gear?
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Volcom » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:05 pm

there is no question that removing this barrier will help fresh nl players out a lot.. when nl first came out was quite a bit more players playing together and the difficulty of NL was balanced by all the people playing with u to help conquer challenges. now a days that is not the case... when a player gets to nl for the most part they just become frustrated and quit or they have a high level friend who is growing an alt account and allows them to tag along for the growth. If these new nl players could bring cob gear i feel like they would actually be able to progress on there own quite well, and if they can progress on there own they are more likely to stay interested in drak, the progression through the game, and ultimately become a long term player. lets face it most players post 50 "leech" themselves off a borrowed account or are lucky enough to find help from the larger players which tell them to stand in the corner and try to stay alive.

this barrier being lifted would be a great place for players between nork and end game nl some more options on gear upgrades and hopefully make there time spent playing drakkar past lvl 50 a bit less frustrating and actually viable to progress on there own in a reasonable amount of time

various skills have also become unused just because there are no weapons worth using past the killer weapons, like an axe, staffs, and bows especially. having these weapons in nl would allow a player who wants to skill axe,staff,and bow able to utilize these skills without being severely handicapped in comparison to the killer weapons

also with the stat cap at lvl 81 being 70.. there are a various cob items that give some more stats than that of the nork or nl version this would make it easier for players to be closer to this cap without having hold 2 killer ss's or maces ... more options in what we wear would make players a bit more unique in what they want to wear instead of all of us looking the same we would have more viable choices to fit your class

its not going to unbalance drak or kill nork ... a naked lvl 70+ can do that already

level requirements and paid accounts only, bringing untied cob gear back to alt 1 for a freebie needs restricted.. the better gear is one of the best incentives to pay for the game that i can think of.

i vote 100% yes to taking down this barrier its long overdue .. just because i did nl the "hard" way doesn't mean everyone else should have to or that drakkar is even in a position to demand that anymore.. give the lone players a fighting chance, maybe they will stop asking me for help so often <G> haha
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Tirith » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:21 pm

im a bit on the border of this.. i see good points on both sides of the argument.. Cob gear is very powerful for nork, however it will help out players in NL considering the current playerbase.
Really there is no for sure way of increasing the player base, short of getting 2-3 volunteer content programmers.. and having weekly updates. That's what I remember had our playerbase at a decent size, waiting for mondays reset to see what may be getting changed, etc. I am not a programmer, if there was an easy content creation system for this game, you could get some non programmer volunteers. I remember a game called RPG maker, you could create a FF4 type game with ease with an easy map creator just point and click move graphics arounds, spell creation, enemy creation. While it would take some time to create these things, it would be a worthy investment because of the ease of content creation. I know its been said that to make one item you have to enter it into 3 or 4 different databases, there are ways to simplify this. Take the game in a new direction, make content creation easier and simpler. We could take lvl cap to 500 and make TONS of new content and get tons of your old players back, get new ones in. etc.

Sorry got off topic. without a big playerbase, it seems cob gear item barrier going down is the way to go but lvl restrictions need to be in place. Forged weapons may need lvl 21 on them. Sog Hally etc.

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Vampster » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:29 pm

There is plenty of space within nameless to add lvl 50 gear +... maybe adding gear 35+ to Banditkins out in the forest for barbs, change the woodelfs bows to something useful. and thennn we got dornar crits that could randomly drop there axe for +35 or +50 players.. And then there is FORGOTTENS.....put a quest in there for weapons..a quest that give u the choice of weapon u want after u kill 5 waves of forgottens or something. Simply just saying walk around nameless and look where u could put all this, leave the cob barrior up and put them little things all over nameless grounds.

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Skip » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:08 pm

I agree with Migam as to the part of not wanting to do the level 20 to 50 treadmill on another character.

As to the remark about using 2 killer SS's from that other person.... -- you'd be amazed at how much better a ment can do with NL defense staff at 36 staff skill :)

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Volcom » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:25 pm

Skip wrote:I agree with Migam as to the part of not wanting to do the level 20 to 50 treadmill on another character.

As to the remark about using 2 killer SS's from that other person.... -- you'd be amazed at how much better a ment can do with NL defense staff at 36 staff skill :)

~Buzz/Skip__KAM ~
amazed? they barely get any weapon blocks, i have 38 staff on my fm and holding a killer ls tromps it.. but even that the weapon blocking seems subpar... almost always armor/shield blocks unless your a parried pally or a zerked barb

and i was only refering to being at 70 stat cap.. aka playing my thief.. but brad did impliment the longer lasting brew potions which i haven't played with yet but i assume would be worth having on ya in the area where every bottle in ur sack gets broken <G>
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Shaddai » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:06 pm

As a very infrequent tiny player and his wife, we would love this. I understood at the time the need for it but now it would solve a huge issue with progression from 18 to NL levels for smaller players/groups. Its not like we're anti-social its just we play maybe 3-4 times a month so we tend to progress really slowly, opening up a group of gear upgrades would make it far less painful.

So yes please thank you from us. Also CoB HP would be really awesome but I'll take the gear ;)

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Brad » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:23 pm

Guys, thanks for all the great feedback, both public and private.

I'm agreeing with the general thought, we will bump up the "out of nork" min level for cob items to 20, and "reserve" the right to tune down crazy items out of cob ( like the loriapi robe.. i'll be monitoring that ).

But, lets do it and let the chips fall where they may!

Yeeeha!

( Oh, btw a ton of the cob potions wont work, they are hard coded to work with cob brains.. just a heads up )

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Migam » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:14 am

20/18 MA, all Cob gear, killing a forgotten.

Normal vamps 319 543 273 193 221 334 block 576 242 265 436 225 ~2 notches

UD5 rada guant 908 464 298 495 1033 430 766 554 213 1736 533 988 1306 dead.

The excellents with rada weren't all big damage but some were large.

Got hit once for 40 damage with 2 juntes and ninpadded leather.


Larger FM in NL gear at sk28 tested with killer GS+10 with all the adds vs. +4 forged GS and +5 batwing GS against banditkins. Not a lot of difference in damage at that skill even using diff accuracy tiers. But at least I can consider using Axe skill which I have a spec in or on thief or smaller barb.

The difference will be what my lvl 25/18 GS barb might hit for if the to-hit on weapon adds for more damage even with less skill... esp. when large enough to finally use that GK2 GS.

I'll test more tomorrow but this seems like it will help the smaller and midsize player alot with the holes for gear that exist from 25 to 50 and maybe allow them to hunt where they couldn't before (which are usually empty now) esp. since Cob has a lot more variety in prot gear. It's not like they will leap levels and skills overnight; they have Mormar and C-Aleria for that. Just have a chance to try more than the same areas and the same grind. Although it's recommended to stay in Cob til 50, it's boring as hell.

Some say Cob gear will make Nork lairs easier. Who cares? NL players do that now and would you stay in Nork at 20 when you can go to Cob or NL and exp and skill better? If you are 20/10 and have to stay in Nork to skill up, you already were doing something wrong. If it's a huge concern, nerf in in alt1/2/Aleria.
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Ghost: Which one wins?
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Migam » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:54 am

NL Keep 0: 20/18+3 barb, ud5 PC ammy/ espear bracer, nin helm, sas, yellow, special robe, some melee gets thru when frothed, no psi or stuns.

Forged GS hits but it's far from oneshots due to the skill, more like 10 shots. One fury round connected 3 times for 2k but that didn't happen alot. At least I can I live in there but I'd still need to go where the solo skill gain is better to kill there faster... Cob. Ironic.

EDIT: Tried diff combos of gear from Cob to see if lo and behold, I can survive on m11 on a 65/28 FM without akroshiekd. Tried Vani plate, 8/8s, 6/6 sash, lori robe, ud5 mummy robe, junte gaunts, I got hammered for 200 to 800 per round against a single staffer. I did best in my NL gear with it's damage absorption. I didn't try the forged GS but if the blocking is superior to killer GS (not many bloods), I will.

I was hoping I could go deeper in Mormar solo but nope. I'll have to fullblood GS and hope.
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Tirith » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:25 pm

I see no effect on high end NL... Im testing the best cob gear vs the best nl gear and im not seeing much of a difference, so I think we need to look at imbalance effects in low end NL, nork, aleria.

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Migam » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:12 pm

Also note, the level reqs that were in cob for certain gear and weaps didnt get dummied down outside of cob lol. GK2 gear, etc is still whatever the cob req was, I checked :D
Starfire: There are two wolves fighting in each man's heart. One is Love, the other is Hate.
Ghost: Which one wins?
Starfire: The one you feed the most.
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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Wolverine2 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:23 am

I was level 50 before the break of the barrier and quit due to frustration. I am now back as a result of this and feel much more able to at least do something in NL. The balance of the cob gear right now for first-area NL seems perfect. Monsters take about 10-15 kills as a barb fully frothed using gk2 hally, and the monsters won't instantly kill me like they did before, however it isn't a walk in the park. I am not able to solo any of the lairs at all and do still need help, but I am feeling much more independent than I did previously. I have now moved through bogs (monsters take about 5-10 hits to kill, however death is very imminent if you don't carry a bunch of IH and run) and have just started on mormar (1-4 seems fairly average, 5-6 things start to get a bit more challenging however not impossible yet). I absolutely love the changes and would not have come back without them. The balance with what I wear seems to be very well balanced, not making things as easy as ccob ended, however not making it a march to the death every few seconds. I have been wearing: Sass, 2 kings robes, resp boots (nork) 2 BL rings, juntes gaunts, d6 bracers,gk2 sash, IV helm, and merk combat ammy, and have used gk2 hally as my weapon.

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by luckyman » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:29 am

first time logging in and actually sitting down to play since this change brad and im curious if theres a trick to to it have gold/ugh on my ment but he can not bring any gear to nork through cc portal timmy portal or tree town portal he is 47/30 so bigger than 18 ive stripped down 1 item at a time to see if maybe it was an item not allowed to pass through but i had no such luck is there a lsit of allowed items posted? my ma as well is level 23 and he can bring no gear out of cob either i have downloaded the newest version of the game so im stumped as to what may be the problem

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Re: Breaking Down the COB Item Barrier

Post by Infinity » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:17 am

You must use normal Cob portals only for now, not Ccob.

1. Anything taken to Cob after this change, no matter what scenario is it from, will be tagged as Cob gear.
2. Any Cob gear outside of Cob (see 1.), requires your paid characters to be at least exp20.
3. Cob gear cannot be grabbed by any free accounts (again, see 1.)

So don't take anything to Cob you intend to use on a <20 character or plan to locker on a free account and don't expect to finally get to Cob for the first time, hunt up gear and come back to Nork at 18 and expect effective gear. It likely won't work even if still worn and once you remove it, you cannot regear, locker or pick it up from the ground. So consider treating Cob as you did before, regearing as if it cannot leave Cob until you are 20.

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